Is there an unneeded hostility towards regular classes in this game?

[RxRai]

I'm curious as to how you out performed your summoner though as an arcanist. Did you mean in overall usefulness or pure DPS? If it was DPS then that shouldn't be happening even if you could pick up BfB and IR.

First of all, you are gimping yourself prior to entering Coil due to the myth sets being job only, though this is lessened somewhat with CT loot.

Secondly, you'll be unable to wield your relic weapon.

Thirdly you lose your job abilities. Pretty big loss in DPS since you lose Fester, Spur and Enkindle. Furthermore, when equipping your soul of the summoner you get increases to all your stats so your potential heals increase if you're going for diversity and you keep your battle rez and all that.

All in all, base classes aren't useless, they're just generally less effective at endgame when considering what their jobs are specialized to do. Plus you can't queue as a healer as arcanist. 30s-early 40s I don't think anyone should really care about what other people are using.

[Huntington]

It actually was Pure DPS. I had someone else measure it through the battle log through his Parse software. I don't remember the exact numbers for for my pet and me, but it was 218 at the time for ACN, and 217 for SMN. Accounting for Fester, all DoTs, Spur and Rouse, Shadow Flare on each, and otherwise, including Raging Strikes, before that, I'd then wait till most of my Cooldowns and the like were ready, then go full tilt for a few minutes using everything I had at my disposal on a level 50 dummy in Coerthas. The only thing that could maybe matter was Enkindle, that did not get used when I did the measurements for this when on Summoner,so feel free to say that invalidates the entire position, don't rightly care about it anymore. Arcanist also had mostly Darklight gear with one or two pieces of Crimson at the time, while SMN had the Doublet and what else was on ACN.

I don't do Coil with ACN, too many people would complain about it.

The Greater Key of Titan is better than the Veil of Wiyu, and I'm not about to waste so much time on a bragging rights weapon like Relics are.

No heals, I'm focusing more on survivability and move variation. The Pet potency is a minimal loss, unless you want to factor in Spur, Enkindle does nothing basically for such a long cooldown, and that's all I have to say about that really.

[T0rin]

The Greater Key of Titan is better than the Veil of Wiyu, and I'm not about to waste so much time on a bragging rights weapon like Relics are.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like this. You lose 3 weapon damage, 2 determination and 37 spell speed. How exactly is Titan's weapon better? Unless you mean non-Zenith relic, in which case you just lose 33 spell speed, still, how is it better?

No heals, I'm focusing more on survivability and move variation. The Pet potency is a minimal loss, unless you want to factor in Spur, Enkindle does nothing basically for such a long cooldown, and that's all I have to say about that really.

Survivability from... what? What do you need extra survivability for, anyhow?

Pet potency amounts to a 2% DPS loss. Factor in Spur and Enkindle, and it's a little more.

Nope, I tested it and activated Spur and Rouse at nearly the same time since it was a full out attack for a few minutes time, since I'm not going to stand there for 10 minutes and do a test when no fights last that long really.

LOL, you're really ruining your credibility here.

I'd use Fester, switch to another attack like Ruin or Ruin 2, then Fester again, and rinse and repeat outside DoTs, and buffs like Raging Strikes and the like. Also had Swiftcast so I'd pop in a Shadow Flare on both classes quickly.

When I do more DoT damage on ACN than SMN, which is the main brunt of it's damage, it's not really a gimp much if at all. I've done comparisons several times, where are other's results?

Check the other thread you posted in earlier, I provided results.

It's pure opinion at this point from other people, yourself included. Summoner was my most used class after Dragoon in XI, and it's the opposite this time, I have a lot of experience with the class and mained Summoner for a decent amount of time. If I can clearly say that I've seen better DPS from ACN than SMN, then I'm serious.

It's not pure opinion, at all. It's kind of like, the exact opposite of pure opinion. Based on the other things you've already said in this thread, it's obvious you really don't know how to play the class, otherwise you wouldn't be so convinced of a false, biased reality.

I mean, it's cool you're trying to think outside the box and all, but the simple reality here is that you lose way more DPS than you make up with more cross-class skills, and the only reason anyone would ever play ACN is to be different. They aren't doing it for the damage.

[Huntington]

Non-Zenith, since there's no reason to spend upwards of ten hours getting a vanity weapon that you don't need, the Key of Titan serves fine enough, and Spell speed increments add miniscule amounts of actual increases to the stats to matter, have you looked into how much points into Critical Hit Rate and Spell Speed actually add to the real value that determines when you crit and how fast you cast?

Convalescence and Foresight for one, makes my heals better, and increases my naturally lower defense. I survived an AoE attack earlier thanks to Second Wind coupled with Blood for Blood, even without BfB it gives me a quick heal.

And 2% matters in how many fights again? Enkindle doesn't warrant a five-minute cooldown, especially with Garuda.

So because someone looked into something differently based on past game experiences, it means they've conjured up a false reality? If that isn't ad hominem I don't know what might be. Damn small character limit...

[T0rin]

Non-Zenith, since there's no reason to spend upwards of ten hours getting a vanity weapon that you don't need, the Key of Titan serves fine enough, and Spell speed increments add miniscule amounts of actual increases to the stats to matter, have you looked into how much points into Critical Hit Rate and Spell Speed actually add to the real value that determines when you crit and how fast you cast?

So, you're saying there is no reason to spend "upwards of ten hours" to get 3 more weapon damage, among other stats? 3 weapon damage is a LOT of damage. It's like, 18 INT worth of damage. On top of the extra 20 you get from the SMN Soul Crystal, that's a good chunk of damage.

And yes, I havelooked into how much Critical Hit Rate and Spell Speed actually affect damage. CRT is not an issue here, because neither weapon has it, but Spell Speed is a pretty underrated stat. I could you you exact numbers, but it's roughly ~13 points of CRT for a 1% increase in crit chance, and ~10.5 spell speed to get a 0.01 decrease to cast time.

Convalescence and Foresight for one, makes my heals better, and increases my naturally lower defense. I survived an AoE attack earlier thanks to Second Wind coupled with Blood for Blood, even without BfB it gives me a quick heal.

Wait, so, you're healing as a DPS class? That sounds counter-productive.

And why didn't you just, I dunno, dodge the AoE attack to begin with?

And 2% matters in how many fights again? Enkindle doesn't warrant a five-minute cooldown, especially with Garuda.

So because someone looked into something differently based on past game experiences, it means they've conjured up a false reality? If that isn't ad hominem I don't know what might be. Damn small character limit...

Last I checked, any and all increase you can make to DPS matter in, oh, I don't know, every fight in the game. Because that is your job, to create damage.

It is a false reality, not because of your game experiences, but because of the actual, provable reality of the game world, that shows very specifically that ACN is pretty bad in terms of DPS output, compared to SMN.

And you can edit your post to get past the 1000 character limit.

[Huntington]

To spend so much time on something that I don't need currently? Yes, I know avid players of XI that looked into it and have hundreds of hours in that that have said that the Relic weapons seem like bravado vanity weapons that aren't worth the time in XIV, that's a perception based on long-time experience in Abyssea, Chains of Promathia, and all of the other additions to it. XI is it's predecessor, someone who's played it for a significant amount of time will be able to notice and take apart things.

So that Spell Speed in the end doesn't matter at all does it? Currently with the gear on my SMN and ACN, ACN has 30 more Spell speed with it, MP is nearly the same, and it only has more Vitality because of the Crimson Circlet and Summoner's Doublet, while ACN has the Darklight Cowl. When that playing field gets more evened up, I won't see much of a difference.I have two Allagan rings, then 3 pieces of Darklight casting on the right side, Crimson on head, hands, and legs, then ACN has the same besides the body and head armor. That's what's making that difference in Intelligence and otherwise right now. That small 20 bonus won't matter when that's evened out, I'd bet on it.

If I need to heal myself in a pinch, and for Healers to more quickly heal me in the event that I take damage of course.
If you know of a way to dodge the wide-spread attack that happens in the Bone Dragon CT fight when a Skeleton runs into it, then I'd love to hear it.

Regular swaps of Internal Release and Blood for Blood are making up the difference in what I'm seeing and experiencing constantly.

[T0rin]

I had a big long post typed up, further recanting the obviously bad information you are spewing, but I'll boil it down to this:

Your experience in XI doesn't matter. If you can't see the benefit of weapon damage, you simply don't understand how damage in this game works. In the end, ACN pidgeon-holes you into a single set of gear, SMN has more diversity. You shouldn't need to heal yourself, ever, and a minor amount of damage reduction in a non-end game instance is unimportant to overall balance. Swapping IR and B4B gives a very minor boost to overall DPS, and even when mixed in with Aero, is easily outweighted by the 20 INT, 10 potency on pet attacks and Fester.

Stop thinking that since you know XI, you know XIV. It is plainly obvious that you don't.

This statement alone is enough for anyone who understands _this_ game to basically ignore everything you have to say on what is "good".

To spend so much time on something that I don't need currently? Yes, I know avid players of XI that looked into it and have hundreds of hours in that that have said that the Relic weapons seem like bravado vanity weapons that aren't worth the time in XIV, that's a perception based on long-time experience in Abyssea, Chains of Promathia, and all of the other additions to it. XI is it's predecessor, someone who's played it for a significant amount of time will be able to notice and take apart things.

i90 weapons are the single most potent, and cost effective way to increase damage over the i80 alternatives. If you can't recognize that, you really don't understand how damage works in this game.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Convalescence and Foresight for one, makes my heals better, and increases my naturally lower defense. I survived an AoE attack earlier thanks to Second Wind coupled with Blood for Blood, even without BfB it gives me a quick heal.

I can't let this go. There is so much wrong with this statement.

1) Foresight is already considered a garbage cooldown with high defense. With low defense you are barely going to notice the difference.
1a) Why are you getting hit by things Foresight would mitigate?
2) Convalescence only improves the strength of healing YOU RECEIVE.
2a) If that doesn't bother you... why are you healing yourself?
2aa) Why are you getting hit by things that would warrant you needing to heal yourself instead of a healer?
2b) It doesn't affect Second Wind
3) Blood for Blood doesn't increase Second Wind's healing.
4) Second Wind is based on your physical attack power (in other words, STR). It should be healing you for double digits at best.

Versatility is unnecessary.

[Huntington]

I can't let this go. There is so much wrong with this statement.

1) Foresight is already considered a garbage cooldown with high defense. With low defense you are barely going to notice the difference.
1a) Why are you getting hit by things Foresight would mitigate?
2) Convalescence only improves the strength of healing YOU RECEIVE.
2a) If that doesn't bother you... why are you healing yourself?
2aa) Why are you getting hit by things that would warrant you needing to heal yourself instead of a healer?
2b) It doesn't affect Second Wind
3) Blood for Blood doesn't increase Second Wind's healing.
4) Second Wind is based on your physical attack power (in other words, STR). It should be healing you for double digits at best.

Versatility is unnecessary.

1. It gives me a 20% boost regardless, as of now, that gives me 338 instead of 282. Which is still enough to help if I get caught in the crossfire for something. inb4tankoryouisn'tstayingoutofthewaysoyou'reusingthatabilitybecauseofamistakeyoumade. Not all situations have to be anyone's fault, sometimes I get hit indirectly by something I would like to not have been hit by, I have this so I can help make a difference at staying alive if something doesn't go perfectly well.
1A. See first part.
2) I could swear that I've already said and elaborated on this. If some people are going to skip the rest of the thread and assume on what was posted before, just don't post at all. I pop Convalescence if I'm taking damage if an add is targeting me so that the Healer can fix me up quickly then get back to the tank or someone else, since Physick only heals for about 400 for me currently. If my health is critically low and the healer isn't getting to me right away, I will pop that then heal myself to make sure I survive so no one has to Raise me, including another SMN or otherwise. My Pet is still doing DPS, and my DoTs would have been up by this point.
2A. Blah
2AA. Blah blah
2B} Yes, Blood for Blood affects it. It raises all damage done by 30% on DRG, 10% otherwise. Second Wind's healing potency is affected by your current attack power, it does not say physical attack power, it says attack power overall. And if we're going to say that it actually means your physical attack power, then why has that not been included in the tooltip already?
4) Double digits? Ha. It heals for an average of 300 to 400 usually, that's enough to help me survive longer if it comes to it, and that's a nice small bit of healing that can serve a purpose if used right and I have abilities up.

[Viridiana]

4) Second Wind is based on your physical attack power (in other words, STR). It should be healing you for double digits at best.

Seems to also be based on weapon damage, and ACN weapons sadly have more DMG stat on them than you'd think. That said. . .

2B} Yes, Blood for Blood affects it. It raises all damage done by 30% on DRG, 10% otherwise. Second Wind's healing potency is affected by your current attack power, it does not say physical attack power, it says attack power overall.

This whole thing is wrong. B4B and Raging Strikes have no effect on the potency of SW. SW is only affected by physical attack stats, including weapon damage.