Is there an unneeded hostility towards regular classes in this game?

[Huntington]

Based on my experiences and of course anecdotal experiences at that, other players, from what I've seen on my server Shiva, seem to be overly suspicious or just downright rude to players using regular classes, despite what their performance in-game or what their gear might be like.

I like to use Arcanist more than Summoner because it reminds me of the Summon versatility that XI had, you could have several summoners all doing different things and using different Avatars at one, which made for some interesting fights if anyone did the Trial By quests for them. So I like to have that extra action use and better availability for this class, since Summoner in XIV now to me feels slow and heavy, as if I have a 5% Slow effect on me or something while I'm casting for whatever reason.

Since I've started to lean back towards Arcanist use, for nearly all dungeons and Raids, besides Coil because some of those can be DPS check and to avoid unwarranted aggression and problems I'll often use Summoner, but otherwise I use Arcanist more than anything else. Just earlier I joined a Crystal Tower run, in-session because I only need a drop from Acheron, and after finishing the Vassago section leading up to King Behemoth, I was removed from the session without any warnings whatsoever. Being booted from the game without being AFK, Offline, Harassing someone, or Cheating is an illegitimate dismissal, and it honestly irritates me when I had done nothing wrong in the fight and was kicked suddenly for no reason, and the other 7 players deemed that it was acceptable to do it.

Has anyone else actually done some testing and experiments with Classes to discover that they're not "unusable"? Because some of them can be used without the Job, which is why Square Enix themselves admitted that this "higher-stats and exclusive gear for Jobs" setup was a mistake, because it imbalances and caters to Jobs and makes it seem like Classes are all but useless, when for myself, I can do more DoT damage with my damage over times, have better survivability, and still decent stats for the class when only 3 of them really count.

I plan on replying as seriously as possible for this so I hope I get better replies than I have in-game.

For the record now, I am not continually bumping this thread, others are. You reply with something besides the usual "OP needs to leave forums 4ever argument" and I'll reply to it, this thread dies when people stop commenting on it.

[RxRai]

I'm curious as to how you out performed your summoner though as an arcanist. Did you mean in overall usefulness or pure DPS? If it was DPS then that shouldn't be happening even if you could pick up BfB and IR.

First of all, you are gimping yourself prior to entering Coil due to the myth sets being job only, though this is lessened somewhat with CT loot.

Secondly, you'll be unable to wield your relic weapon.

Thirdly you lose your job abilities. Pretty big loss in DPS since you lose Fester, Spur and Enkindle. Furthermore, when equipping your soul of the summoner you get increases to all your stats so your potential heals increase if you're going for diversity and you keep your battle rez and all that.

All in all, base classes aren't useless, they're just generally less effective at endgame when considering what their jobs are specialized to do. Plus you can't queue as a healer as arcanist. 30s-early 40s I don't think anyone should really care about what other people are using.

[Huntington]

It actually was Pure DPS. I had someone else measure it through the battle log through his Parse software. I don't remember the exact numbers for for my pet and me, but it was 218 at the time for ACN, and 217 for SMN. Accounting for Fester, all DoTs, Spur and Rouse, Shadow Flare on each, and otherwise, including Raging Strikes, before that, I'd then wait till most of my Cooldowns and the like were ready, then go full tilt for a few minutes using everything I had at my disposal on a level 50 dummy in Coerthas. The only thing that could maybe matter was Enkindle, that did not get used when I did the measurements for this when on Summoner,so feel free to say that invalidates the entire position, don't rightly care about it anymore. Arcanist also had mostly Darklight gear with one or two pieces of Crimson at the time, while SMN had the Doublet and what else was on ACN.

I don't do Coil with ACN, too many people would complain about it.

The Greater Key of Titan is better than the Veil of Wiyu, and I'm not about to waste so much time on a bragging rights weapon like Relics are.

No heals, I'm focusing more on survivability and move variation. The Pet potency is a minimal loss, unless you want to factor in Spur, Enkindle does nothing basically for such a long cooldown, and that's all I have to say about that really.

[T0rin]

The Greater Key of Titan is better than the Veil of Wiyu, and I'm not about to waste so much time on a bragging rights weapon like Relics are.

It's really hard to take you seriously when you say stuff like this. You lose 3 weapon damage, 2 determination and 37 spell speed. How exactly is Titan's weapon better? Unless you mean non-Zenith relic, in which case you just lose 33 spell speed, still, how is it better?

No heals, I'm focusing more on survivability and move variation. The Pet potency is a minimal loss, unless you want to factor in Spur, Enkindle does nothing basically for such a long cooldown, and that's all I have to say about that really.

Survivability from... what? What do you need extra survivability for, anyhow?

Pet potency amounts to a 2% DPS loss. Factor in Spur and Enkindle, and it's a little more.

Nope, I tested it and activated Spur and Rouse at nearly the same time since it was a full out attack for a few minutes time, since I'm not going to stand there for 10 minutes and do a test when no fights last that long really.

LOL, you're really ruining your credibility here.

I'd use Fester, switch to another attack like Ruin or Ruin 2, then Fester again, and rinse and repeat outside DoTs, and buffs like Raging Strikes and the like. Also had Swiftcast so I'd pop in a Shadow Flare on both classes quickly.

When I do more DoT damage on ACN than SMN, which is the main brunt of it's damage, it's not really a gimp much if at all. I've done comparisons several times, where are other's results?

Check the other thread you posted in earlier, I provided results.

It's pure opinion at this point from other people, yourself included. Summoner was my most used class after Dragoon in XI, and it's the opposite this time, I have a lot of experience with the class and mained Summoner for a decent amount of time. If I can clearly say that I've seen better DPS from ACN than SMN, then I'm serious.

It's not pure opinion, at all. It's kind of like, the exact opposite of pure opinion. Based on the other things you've already said in this thread, it's obvious you really don't know how to play the class, otherwise you wouldn't be so convinced of a false, biased reality.

I mean, it's cool you're trying to think outside the box and all, but the simple reality here is that you lose way more DPS than you make up with more cross-class skills, and the only reason anyone would ever play ACN is to be different. They aren't doing it for the damage.

[Huntington]

Non-Zenith, since there's no reason to spend upwards of ten hours getting a vanity weapon that you don't need, the Key of Titan serves fine enough, and Spell speed increments add miniscule amounts of actual increases to the stats to matter, have you looked into how much points into Critical Hit Rate and Spell Speed actually add to the real value that determines when you crit and how fast you cast?

Convalescence and Foresight for one, makes my heals better, and increases my naturally lower defense. I survived an AoE attack earlier thanks to Second Wind coupled with Blood for Blood, even without BfB it gives me a quick heal.

And 2% matters in how many fights again? Enkindle doesn't warrant a five-minute cooldown, especially with Garuda.

So because someone looked into something differently based on past game experiences, it means they've conjured up a false reality? If that isn't ad hominem I don't know what might be. Damn small character limit...

[T0rin]

Non-Zenith, since there's no reason to spend upwards of ten hours getting a vanity weapon that you don't need, the Key of Titan serves fine enough, and Spell speed increments add miniscule amounts of actual increases to the stats to matter, have you looked into how much points into Critical Hit Rate and Spell Speed actually add to the real value that determines when you crit and how fast you cast?

So, you're saying there is no reason to spend "upwards of ten hours" to get 3 more weapon damage, among other stats? 3 weapon damage is a LOT of damage. It's like, 18 INT worth of damage. On top of the extra 20 you get from the SMN Soul Crystal, that's a good chunk of damage.

And yes, I havelooked into how much Critical Hit Rate and Spell Speed actually affect damage. CRT is not an issue here, because neither weapon has it, but Spell Speed is a pretty underrated stat. I could you you exact numbers, but it's roughly ~13 points of CRT for a 1% increase in crit chance, and ~10.5 spell speed to get a 0.01 decrease to cast time.

Convalescence and Foresight for one, makes my heals better, and increases my naturally lower defense. I survived an AoE attack earlier thanks to Second Wind coupled with Blood for Blood, even without BfB it gives me a quick heal.

Wait, so, you're healing as a DPS class? That sounds counter-productive.

And why didn't you just, I dunno, dodge the AoE attack to begin with?

And 2% matters in how many fights again? Enkindle doesn't warrant a five-minute cooldown, especially with Garuda.

So because someone looked into something differently based on past game experiences, it means they've conjured up a false reality? If that isn't ad hominem I don't know what might be. Damn small character limit...

Last I checked, any and all increase you can make to DPS matter in, oh, I don't know, every fight in the game. Because that is your job, to create damage.

It is a false reality, not because of your game experiences, but because of the actual, provable reality of the game world, that shows very specifically that ACN is pretty bad in terms of DPS output, compared to SMN.

And you can edit your post to get past the 1000 character limit.

[SeraviEdalborez]

Convalescence and Foresight for one, makes my heals better, and increases my naturally lower defense. I survived an AoE attack earlier thanks to Second Wind coupled with Blood for Blood, even without BfB it gives me a quick heal.

I can't let this go. There is so much wrong with this statement.

1) Foresight is already considered a garbage cooldown with high defense. With low defense you are barely going to notice the difference.
1a) Why are you getting hit by things Foresight would mitigate?
2) Convalescence only improves the strength of healing YOU RECEIVE.
2a) If that doesn't bother you... why are you healing yourself?
2aa) Why are you getting hit by things that would warrant you needing to heal yourself instead of a healer?
2b) It doesn't affect Second Wind
3) Blood for Blood doesn't increase Second Wind's healing.
4) Second Wind is based on your physical attack power (in other words, STR). It should be healing you for double digits at best.

Versatility is unnecessary.

[T0rin]

The only way you can out-DPS SMN as ACN is if you don't use Fester and don't routinely buff your pet damage. I'm not sure why you wouldn't do those things, but there it is.

The hostility comes for the same reason as people get hostile when other people play badly. Except this is worse, because you are willingly nerfing your own DPS, the sole reason for your class, simply out of some personal preference.

[Huntington]

Nope, I tested it and activated Spur and Rouse at nearly the same time since it was a full out attack for a few minutes time, since I'm not going to stand there for 10 minutes and do a test when no fights last that long really. I'd use Fester, switch to another attack like Ruin or Ruin 2, then Fester again, and rinse and repeat outside DoTs, and buffs like Raging Strikes and the like. Also had Swiftcast so I'd pop in a Shadow Flare on both classes quickly.

When I do more DoT damage on ACN than SMN, which is the main brunt of it's damage, it's not really a gimp much if at all. I've done comparisons several times, where are other's results? It's pure opinion at this point from other people, yourself included. Summoner was my most used class after Dragoon in XI, and it's the opposite this time, I have a lot of experience with the class and mained Summoner for a decent amount of time. If I can clearly say that I've seen better DPS from ACN than SMN, then I'm serious.

[Kellauchia]

How did XI get into this?
isnt this XIV....?