Is there an unneeded hostility towards regular classes in this game?

[Blackdawn06]

Not sure if troll....or hipster...or both. Either way, everything that needed to be said discrediting your ACN > SMN theories has been said in the first page.

Cant get BiS gear as an ACN, nor can you achieve ACC cap. If you somehow ARE able to achieve acc cap, you are gimping your DPS on irrelevant itemized gear, thus you cant do t5. If you can do t5, you are being carried and are not a valued asset to your group. It is with this mindset that people progress through all end game content. Hence why no one takes you seriously.

Edit ~ To put into perspective, if SE meant for regular classes to be a viable option for end game content, they would have AF gear to support them. They dont, because they arent. It's plain to see.

[Fireseen]

So in a nutshell what OP is trying to tell everyone:

Arcanist - great utility and survivability, what ever damage, uses include: killing lvl 49+ mobs in outdoor areas, FATEs
Summoner - great Damage (who cares about utility and survivability, dont stand in the red/pulse), uses include: killing lvl 49+ mobs in outdoor areas, FATEs, dungeons, Primals, EX Primal, CT, Coil, etc.

[Alcyon1]

Hmm ...

What's the main job of a tank ? Making the raid take the minimal amount of damage.
What's the main job of a healer ? Keeping everybody alive.
What's the main job of a DPS ? Making the raid do the maximum damage and not taking avoidable damage.

What's the sub job of a tank ? Help the DPS by doing some damage and the healers (Ot castinf Stonskin is an example).
What's the sub job of healer ? Help the DPS in some fights (plumes vs Garuda EX is an example).
What's the sub job of a DPS ? Nothing (except for BRD).

In end-game content, if the DPS is too weak, the raid wipes. So, gimping your DPS for more "utility" is a no-no.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

This is WoW mentality. The OP's ideas make sense in an FFXI mentality, and, what he had hoped, would be an FFXIV mentality. That's kind of the whole point of this. Not necessarily what is the best option, but to explore options and hopefully expand upon them in the future. Why limit yourself to 1 idea and 1 idea only? As I said before, at this point in the game, your mentality here is correct. However, what if ACN had access to Silence that SMN didn't? This opens up the door for more options when grouping up. I for one would like this game to expand to more options for Utility/Support jobs beyond just BRD. I understand, and I believe the OP understands, that this isn't how it currently is in FFXIV. However, games evolve. It's possible that the extra healing on you (Convalescence), would be important during Leviathan or something. Probably not, but maybe. Keep your options open, keep thinking, don't limit yourself.

EDIT: Actually, that post is kind of wrong anyway, as melee can stun, which is a Utility in several fights.

[Alcyon1]

snp

Erm. The guys is talking about ACN vs SMN in FFXIV NOW, I don't care about FFXI. I think most users are getting tired of "look at WOW" or "look at FFXI". FFXIV is actually designed as I said earlier, it might change, but actually a level 50 ACN in a group is just trolling.

PS No. Usual, a DPs using a stun is a burden in fights where stunning is important. To be honest, a MNK can silence in T1 and T2, but the dps loss is big and can be an issue.
PS2 I never played WOW, I probably started MMO's before you did.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

Those MMO's are referenced often because they are the biggest ones, with 2 very different schools of thought. And, frankly, almost every MMO can be classified between those 2 schools of thought. Please note the "almost" there. Saying that DPS should only DPS, Tank should only Tank, and Heal should only Heal is a misconception, and falls into the WoW mentality. The OP is exploring the options of Utility vs. Traditional Role, which I commend thoroughly, though I am fully aware it's not as viable currently. I've only recently started seeing threads discussing the real potential of Classes in certain scenarios, so there's no reason not to discuss it further. If we fall into a 1 Job/Class 1 Role mentality, we could be limiting ourselves from other possibilities.

[Trashy]

The OP is exploring the options of Utility vs. Traditional Role, which I commend thoroughly, though I am fully aware it's not as viable currently.

No he's not. Utility and hybridization are not the same thing. Utility is provided in XIV by things like Bard songs, Virus/E4E, stun, etc. Yes, FFXIV lacks in that. The OP does nothing to change that lack of utility though.

Arcanists provide nothing at all in utility that's not better provided by another class. An Arcanist provides versatility over the SMN. But that's a false choice. There is no point, in pretty much any game, when being able to do two things badly is better than doing one thing well.

[Alcyon1]

Those MMO's are referenced often because they are the biggest ones, with 2 very different schools of thought. And, frankly, almost every MMO can be classified between those 2 schools of thought. Please note the "almost" there. Saying that DPS should only DPS, Tank should only Tank, and Heal should only Heal is a misconception, and falls into the WoW mentality. The OP is exploring the options of Utility vs. Traditional Role, which I commend thoroughly, though I am fully aware it's not as viable currently. I've only recently started seeing threads discussing the real potential of Classes in certain scenarios, so there's no reason not to discuss it further. If we fall into a 1 Job/Class 1 Role mentality, we could be limiting ourselves from other possibilities.

Ok, I need to explain it with simple words

ME SAY FFXIV DPS DO DPS NOTHING ELSE
ME SAY WHAT HAPPENS IN OTHER GAMES DOESN'T MATTER
ME SAY IF SOMETHING VIABLE, ME WILL TEST AND PLAY
YOU UNDERSTAND ?

[Ryuko]

At first, I thought maybe you were a new player just starting out the game and that's why your SMN dps was so low... (214 was it?) There's no shame in not having the best gear yet. But now that I know you are i78... That's actually a pretty high iLevel! You should be doing AT LEAST 250 in most fights on SMN with your current gear... probably even more. When you get full i90, you should be doing around 300~ (with your pet added of course). I'm not going to ask you to post your rotation because a few people have already asked you to and you've refused. Instead, I'm going to offer this advice and you can either take it or leave it. Other summoners may criticize tiny things in my rotation, but trust me this will increase your DPS by a lot either way.

Start of the fight: tell Garuda to attack with obey. Never use Sic. If it is a fight with a lot of AoEs and dodging, be sure to place her so she doesn't take too much damage. Watch her HP and if it gets low, Sustain while you are dodging something of your own so little dps potential is wasted).
Greatest dps potential on single target (for burst moments, WITH all your cooldowns): RS > Bio II > Miasma > Bio > (wait for Bio to land) Fester > Miasma II (while triggering Contagion) > SC > Shadowflare > Ruin 2 (trigger rouse while waiting on GCD) > Ruin 2 > (trigger spur while waiting on GCD) > Fester > Energy Drain if you need the MP, or another Ruin 2 > RS is over... > Enkindle > Ruin 1 spam until refreshing dots... rinse, repeat.

When dealing with multiple mobs, make sure your 3 main dots are up with Bane, you are using Miasma II, and Shadowflare for the highest dps potential.

When dealing with multiple targets, there are a few questions to ask yourself:
How long do I expect these targets to be alive? (If they will be alive for a while, consider throwing Contagion on the mob you used your initial dots on before using Bane.)
How many targets are there? (If there are more than four total, your Bane will not hit them all. If there are considerably more than four, you may want to start by casting your dots on a mob on one side of the pack, Bane-ing, and then casting your dots on a mob on the other side of the pack, and Bane-ing. I do this on spiders in phase 1 of Turn 4, for example.)
Is it dangerous for me to go in the middle of the pack of mobs? (If not, Blizzard II should be your 'filler' while your dots are ticking and a lot of mobs alive. If it IS dangerous to go inside the pack, you can use Tri-Disaster instead (less damage, longer cast time, more mp than Blizzard II) or burst down targets that need to die fast with Fester...)

General rules...
Shadowflare is worth it if a single target monster will be in the area of effect for most of the spell's duration. If your party doesn't need you to save SC for possible raises, this is what I waste my SC on since it's a long cast time. Shadowflare is ALWAYS worth it on multiple mobs.
Miasma II isn't really worth it on single target unless you are extending dot duration with Contagion. Even then, some people are still kind of 'meh' about its potential. I personally like using it. Miasma II is ALWAYS worth it on multiple mobs.
Fester on cooldown unless you are saving your aethercharges for something specific.
Ruin II does the same damage as Ruin 1, except it is instant (distributes damage BEFORE the GCD is up) and has an added effect of blind. Generally, to conserve MP, don't use Ruin II all the time. Some good moments to use it are... while you are dodging something (to maximize dps potential), when something is ALMOST dead (and you want every second to count), and when you are trying to squeeze as much as you can into cooldowns (like RS and popping pet cooldowns at the same time). I also like Ruin II for in dungeons where I pull hate on adds and the mob is attacking me... because it blinds the mob.

You will perhaps be happy about this analogy...

Remember when you first did the arcanist storyline, and the NPCs made a big deal out of math and timing meaning everything to arcanist? That wasn't just corny roleplaying. It actually holds true with BOTH of those jobs. A summoner/scholar who knows what is coming in a fight will do a LOT better. Timing your aetherflow charges for juuuuuust the right moments is important. For scholar, it might be saving Lustrate for moments where the tank gets hit hard, or using sacred soil preemtively before a hard-hitting AoE. For summoner, it might be saving charges for adds you *know* are coming (Titan ex jails, or Ifrit ex nails)... But, the more you understand a fight, the better you will perform... you will be able to time everything perfectly, and this is what bridges the gap between arcanist and SMN/SCH.

[Huntington]

@Ryuko

That DPS was back when I had item level of 74 or so I believe or 76, IDK, I'll find someone who can do a quick parse for me sometime so I can get a refreshed estimate up. I appreciate the information, though I don't have anything there to add or expand upon. I've liked and read through it though I assure you.