Tank changes I'd like to see happen.

[Kuwagami]

Why would anyone who has played end game WAR at least once want to change the way SE/SP works ? I'm kinda lost on this ?_?

As a il86 WAR, I already nearly rip hate off the main tank if I rotate these 2 combos only under defiance (for tank swaps) and even without defience, I sit at 2nd place for the whole fight if I put a BB in between. Put SE's debuff on BB and I dare anyone to prevent me to MT, even if I don't want to.
Conclusion : I will never be able to use this debuff anymore as an OT and it would result in a threat management loss for the MT.

the change to foresight isn't that needed though, as I can count on one hand the situations I would have liked it to include magic defense. even the protect trait is kinda not compulsary (else SCH would have had it too because of 4-men dungeons)

[Anienai]

I just want the animation for Overpower back.

[Versiroth]

Why would anyone who has played end game WAR at least once want to change the way SE/SP works ? I'm kinda lost on this ?_?

As a il86 WAR, I already nearly rip hate off the main tank if I rotate these 2 combos only under defiance (for tank swaps) and even without defience, I sit at 2nd place for the whole fight if I put a BB in between. Put SE's debuff on BB and I dare anyone to prevent me to MT, even if I don't want to.
Conclusion : I will never be able to use this debuff anymore as an OT and it would result in a threat management loss for the MT.

Then you have a bad/under geared MT. If you're spamming SE-SP-SE-SP, etc, even while under defiance, you should never get close to a MT that is using their enmity combo while also under their tanking stance. SP and SE don't have any threat modifiers at all. But besides that, if you're not going to be needed as MT for a bit, why would you be in Defiance anyway? You're doing 25% less damage.

[BazFamrit]

I stay in defiance when I'm lagging. Defiance already has a slightly delayed effect so I'd rather not chance a misfire since you do 100% less damage when you're dead.

[Kuwagami]

snip

Defiance multiplier alone is enough to sit at 2nd place.
Also, people should quit the 25%damage debuff argument. Tanks have a ridiculous dps, 25% less won't change it drastically unless under berserk, and I have unchained for that. and it allows some great "oh shit" moments to be dealt with without delay because I'm already in tank stance.

Pld can switch stance in no time without drawback, war cannot because we lose 25% hp doing that and it *could* become dramatic

[Argyle_Darkheart]

Pld can switch stance in no time without drawback

Switching between Sword Oath and Shield Oath consumes a GCD and a considerable amount of MP each time.

[Kuwagami]

Switching between Sword Oath and Shield Oath consumes a GCD and a considerable amount of MP each time.

Still your damage reductions happens faster than our hp recover from it :/ plus you can use this GCD to provoke and get shield lob right after provoke lands

[Kitru]

- Add a threat modifier to Circle of Scorn so we can do more than spam Flash during AOE situations. Warriors have Over power, Steel Cyclone and they get flash. Letting the Paladin have an additional AOE that has a threat modifier only makes sense. I'm actually surprised that they added one to Steel Cyclone while leaving Circle of Scorn out.

CoS isn't just used for AoE situations. It's assumed to be used on CD at all times, including ST situations. If it got a threat modifier attached to it, it would increase PLD enmity potency per GCD by 25 * (whatever enmity modifier you choose to use). Given that PLD's max enmity generation is ~870 ePot/GCD compared to WAR's ~850 ePot/GCD (this is max enmity gen via SE>BB>BB>BB, not the best performance rotation of SE>SP>BB which manages ~595), you'd be giving PLD an even bigger enmity generation lead over WAR (esp. since PLD only has a single useful rotation).

If CoS were given an enmity modifier, PLD would probably have to lose enmity somewhere else in their rotation, which there isn't really much option for. The best "compromise" to increase PLD AoE enmity generation without increasing its AoE enmity generation would probably be to have Circle of Scorn generate additional enmity on targets that are Blinded, so that it "combos" off of Flash.

- Change Shield Swipe into a combo move that works off of Fast Blade-Riot Blade (potency 100 or 280 comboed. Pacification is part of the combo effect) . This would give Paladins a second combo that could be used while off tanking. We could also rotate this with the RoH combo while MTing for extra DPS, mana regen and a chance at Pacification (to help with Mit).

PLDs need a high damage/low-enmity combo, desperately in my opinion, but I'm not entirely sure I agree with your idea here, especially given that your proposed DPS rotation would have an average pot/GCD of 213.33 ((150 + 210 + 280)). When you add in the extra 50 pot/GCD from off-GCDs, 83.33 from auto-attacks, and ~60 from Sword Oath (remember, Sword Oath adds 50 potency to each auto-attack swing), you're getting 406.66 pot/GCD in DPS mode. A WAR manages 377.77 (SE>SP; they get 386.66 with SE>BB but you're not providing the MT with the damage debuff), so you'd be giving PLD better OT damage than WAR, which, given that WAR already has better utility than WAR (which is why WAR has better damage), would have PLD start to impinge upon WAR's demesne.

Shield Swipe's 40 TP for 210 potency would work pretty well for a t3 combo (remember, Riot Blade is 210 but it's a whopping 100 TP) since it gives the combo an average potency of 190 (210 + 210 + 150) and a more manageable average cost of 70 (WAR combos and RoH cost 63.33). The total pot/GCD would be ~383.33 (190 + 83.33 + 50 + 60), which is roughly on par. I'm still kind of fuzzy upon whether it's too much, but Shield Swipe wouldn't need its values changed.

I'm also not entirely sure I agree with using Shield Swipe as opposed to just replacing it outright. I'd be happier seeing it simply get replaced with a new t3 combo attack that applies some useful DPS utility instead of trying to turn Shield Swipe into a combo attack that can still use the existing proc and Pacification, which is pretty much worthless given that pretty much everything you might want to Pacify is immune to it (and, even then, those bosses that are vulnerable to it aren't appreciably affected by it since a majority of boss damage is derived from their auto-attacks, which is unaffected by Pacify).

I would rather have some new attack replace Shield Swipe completely. I'm not sure what DPS utility I'd like to see and it could probably get away with not having any, but I'm not entirely sure I agree with a shield attack being the finishing move of a hack-n-slash combo.

- Since Shield Swipe would no longer have a proc, give it to Shield bash. Shield Bash would work as normal, but also give you a proc that occurs when you block. It would cause it to be instant for 10 seconds.

I'm assuming you meant "off-GCD" instead of "instant", since Shield Bash is already an instant attack (it has no cast bar).

Anyways, Shield Bash is perfectly fine. The reason that it's on the GCD and breaks combos is because it's a stun that doesn't have a CD. That's the trade off. Every other melee stun is on a 20 sec CD. PLD gets one that doesn't have a CD.

- Get rid of the current Storms Eye and add it's effects into Butcher's Block. Honestly.. why do the Warriors need three combos? Keeping up all three while MTing is annoying and most warriors I see skip Storms eye a lot of times anyway and simply rotate SP, BB, BB, SP, etc. So, BB would become more like Rage of Halone. It would be our best threat modifier and also raise both tanks DPS and debuff the targets healing received.

Please god no. WAR has 3 combos because it makes the WAR playstyle more interesting and gives you a crapton of potential options that you can apply to various situations. Putting SE's functionality on BB would just turn WAR into a single rotation class of BB>BB>SE, which is not appreciably better than PLD.

- Make the new Storms Eye a self heal cool down. It would be on a 2 minute CD, last 8 seconds and give you a 25% heal based on the damage you sustained over the duration. So, if you take 4K damage over that 8 seconds, you get a 1K heal once it ends. This could be used before huge moves to help the healer get you back up to full health or during burst phases when the healer is having to spam to keep you alive. It would also add to the "self heal" persona of the Warrior. EDIT: Add in the stipulation that the max heal can not exceed 25% of your maximum health.

Storm's Path is fine, and the WAR CD suite is actually in a pretty good place now with the exception of a couple that need to be beefed up a bit rather than adding a new one to it because you want to get rid of Storm's Path.

- Change the duration of Inner beasts damage reduction to 8 seconds. An additional 2 seconds would NOT make this ability over powered. What it would do is make it a little easier to time with big hits, which is the whole purpose of the ability in the first place as the heal is almost useless now.

I agree with this wholeheartedly.

- Change the duration of Holmgang from 6 seconds to 10 seconds. Also give it a self heal mechanic. Maybe 200% of your damage dealt over the duration.

I'm ambivalent about the first part but not with the second. While I'd love to see the "cannot die" portion of Holmgang extended to 10-12 seconds, recall that Holmgang also binds you and the target (which basically means "you" since most bosses are immune to bind). If the duration were extended, make sure that it's stated to only apply to the survival effect, not the bind.

As to the second, self healing scaling off of damage dealt is *bad*. It's also basically encouraging saving up DPS CDs for it instead of trying to survive. What would work better, since the primary problem with Holmgang is that, if it's useful, you die the very next GCD, is if Holmgang restored you to 25-50% hp at the end of the effect (if you're above 50%, no effect; if you're at 1 hp, brings you back up to 25-50%).

- Give Foresight a Magic defense boost to go along with it's physical one. This would benefit both Warriors and Paladins.

PLD doesn't need it. WAR does. PLD CD suite is already strong enough. WAR needs it. What you need to keep in mind is that 10% defense is next to nothing. It's barely noticeable, which is the problem with it. PLDs notice Rampart; neither tank really notices Foresight. What needs to happen is for Foresight (for WARs) be increased so that the effect is noticeable. Having it apply to magic defense as well would be a godsend since every other tank CD in the game applies to both.

There are a lot of potential ideas that I won't get in to now, but it really shouldn't be tweaked for PLDs and needs more for WAR.

[Brannigan]

For Paladin, I'd like to see Awareness replaced with a 3rd step to the Riot Blade combo and Shield Swipe modified depending on the type of shield you're using. Additionally, Cover and Bulwark could use some changes. I like the idea of a low-cooldown low-duration Bulwark a lot (something like 30~45 second cooldown, 2 guaranteed blocks), and Cover just needs to take the paladin's own mitigation into account and maybe have some other added utility. Circle of Scorn is underwhelming, but I don't really mind it. Finally, if paladin was to get a 3rd hit to the Riot Blade combo, it'd be nice if there was another thing for paladin to spend MP on. Effectiveness aside, paladin is pretty bland. It's the only melee class that has a way to actively restore MP, but outside of Stoneskin the MP doesn't get much use. It would be a nerf, but something like Rampart and Sentinel consuming MP could add some kind of resource management to the class. I'm not concerned about the hit that single target enmity would take by having to use Riot Blade while tanking, because single target enmity is a complete joke for both tanks right now.

For Warriors, Holmgang's movement penalty should probably be removed. It can be left in PVP or whatever, but situations like Death Sentence -> Twister really diminish Holmgang's use. I'd also like to see it restore HP when you take a deathblow. Other than that, Warriors are in a really good place right now and have very few weak abilities. (enhanced) Foresight probably should be tweaked to deal with magic damage as well, but other than that I think they're the class with the fewest "bad" abilities right now.

[NyssaElf]

For war I would change skull sunder and butcher block to aggro plus lowering striking and attack. Like a pld lower attack and aggro are the same. The storm attacks would be health(better health anyway) and tp. Like storm eye for example, whatever I hit for I get back in health and storm path would be the same just with tp.
vengeance would be a shield, lowers damage, with the reflection still attached. Bloodbath just needs to heal more and increase health pool while in use. Holmgang. Would still chain the enemy but not you, and suck its HP into you. Probably shouldn't do that in pvp though.

I honestly loved this in white knight chronicles.
While PLD are in sword oath. They get shadow blades. Becoming dual wield.

I apologize if people already said this. Y'all just wrote books about it and I just don't have the patience to read the wall of text, and was excited for this thread so I just jumped to the end. Will edit or delete it though