Tank changes I'd like to see happen.

[Versiroth]

Those aren't suggestions there complete overhauls. Each tank has its niche to force groups to use both. If they were each equal in every respect then the only reason to choose one over the other would be aesthetics. If anything I could see some minor tweaks to optimize each tanks strengths. This is a cooperative game so cooperate. The lone wolf mentality can only get you so far.

What changes did I recommend that would make the other tank useless to groups? Or to make groups stack either/or?

[BazFamrit]

What changes did I recommend that would make the other tank useless to groups? Or to make groups stack either/or?

You suggested giving pld greater aoe enmity. War would not be needed as much to hold groups of adds. You also suggested war get greater DMG mitigation. Pld wouldn't be needed as much for periods of sustained high DMG. Shield bash may break your combo but its also always available for use. War has the exact opposite in that stun is not always available but doesn't break the combo. Again, each job has its own perks and those perks are useful in certain situations, sometimes during the same instance. Buffing ones ability to do what the other does best lessens the need to have one of each.

[Versiroth]

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So, instead of balancing the jobs you'd rather they tailor each so that they're situational? Personally, that doesn't affect me as I have both, but if you only have one, it can't feel good to be told that you can't tank something as a Paladin because a Warrior is better in said situation or vice versa. I would rather SE balance them out and then keep adding incentives to bring both like the LB change and stuff like the damage debuff/STR debuff than to make each one have a niche.

[BazFamrit]

So, instead of balancing the jobs you'd rather they tailor each so that they're situational? Personally, that doesn't affect me as I have both, but if you only have one, it can't feel good to be told that you can't tank something as a Paladin because a Warrior is better in said situation or vice versa. I would rather SE balance them out and then keep adding incentives to bring both like the LB change and stuff like the damage debuff/STR debuff than to make each one have a niche.

Balance is great but making them more similar is not balance. Like I said, each has their place and the both together is much better than 2 of the same. Each can tank everything well just have different drawbacks and benefits.

[Fyreus]

You suggested giving pld greater aoe enmity. War would not be needed as much to hold groups of adds. You also suggested war get greater DMG mitigation. Pld wouldn't be needed as much for periods of sustained high DMG. Shield bash may break your combo but its also always available for use. War has the exact opposite in that stun is not always available but doesn't break the combo. Again, each job has its own perks and those perks are useful in certain situations, sometimes during the same instance. Buffing ones ability to do what the other does best lessens the need to have one of each.

Last i played there were warriors, post dec patch, who had hate levels that were so insanely high that they could switch off of tanking rotations and onto doing dps rotations while MTing so it's hard for me to take that stance knowing paladin's perks are minimal and you can get by with the job only having: stun, 1 combo, rampart, and shield oath imho. Paladin has weak AOE threat and that damage is pretty paltry. There are many runs where people would normally take 1 tank so a correction to this would be nice plus wars have been crying for more mitigation and they'll continue to address this until they future proof it.

All in all I'd like to see paladin become more than a 1 trick pony. If we talked pvp then it's hard to even call 'em a tank.

[BazFamrit]

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This is not true at all. The DMG combo for war is their hate combo. They have the option of going all out damage with butchers block and storms eye combo. Or defensive with butchers path combo. Keeping both debuffs up causes them to fall off before they refresh. Choosing which way to go depends on the content and your gear.

Pld can also do some decent damage. One of the biggest differences is pld go full vit and many war go full str or star biased with their attributes. When I swapped from full str to full vit(as war) I noticed a significant DPS loss and its a bit more difficult to keep hate than before. For that reason most pld will never come close to war DPS or enmity generation but otherwise they are similar in terms of DPS ability when focused on actually doing DMG.

[whiskeybravo]

When is the healing debuff even useful? Aside from a few Leeching enemies, and NPC type enemies during story quests, I've never seen bosses or other enemies heal.

I do sort of agree that Paladin should have a little something more for OT combo-wise, but there is still quite a bit you can do. Swap to sword oath, RB, CoS, SW if not need for silence, Flash for blind, Stone Skin on the MT, Cover if necessary. By comparison War drops defiance, uses SP and/or SE, Berserk, and maybe some trick Defiance>Infuriate>IB>Defiance or something., but that's about it.

Also, CoS does have higher potency than Steel Cyclone, but SC ignores damage penalty. I would think CoS does generate a little enmity due to threat modifier from shield oath. I'm not opposed to adding a 3x modifier for CoS like Overpower, however.

[Versiroth]

When is the healing debuff even useful? Aside from a few Leeching enemies, and NPC type enemies during story quests, I've never seen bosses or other enemies heal.

I haven't done any research, but is it not useful for enemies like Garuda (sister causes her life to regen) or the Slimes on Cad?

Also, it's not only about off tanking, but just making the job over all more fun and varied to play. Spamming one combo can get pretty boring even while MTing. If not the healing debuff, give Shield Swipe something else useful so Paladins have a reason to rotate combos (like Warriors do).

[whiskeybravo]

I haven't done any research, but is it not useful for enemies like Garuda (sister causes her life to regen) or the Slimes on Cad?

Also, it's not only about off tanking, but just making the job over all more fun and varied to play. Spamming one combo can get pretty boring even while MTing. If not the healing debuff, give Shield Swipe something else useful so Paladins have a reason to rotate combos (like Warriors do).

Haha forgot about ol' Ruda. I guess the slimes do heal a bit too. Never really thought about it since I try to keep them both up anyways, whether OT or MT. XD

[Lemon8or]

Haha forgot about ol' Ruda. I guess the slimes do heal a bit too. Never really thought about it since I try to keep them both up anyways, whether OT or MT. XD

Garuda HM's sisters die really quick now there's almost no point to it. EX sisters don't heal. Slimes on Cad don't heal for that much if you bring them down below 20% so....
I've never lost threat on turn 4 spiders even when the BLM are using Flare when I tank on Paladin. I don't know where else you would have problem with AOE threat....
You're forgetting that in order to proc Shield Swipe right now you need a block to trigger it. If you're moving the proc to Shield Bash..... you wouldn't be able to reliably stun/pacify Lunatic Voice. You're a tank, not a dps and by then aggro should be established so your responsibility is to interrupt abilities that might wipe the party.
Can you imagine the up-roar if warriors get your version of Storm's Eye? I had to take Titan EX's Mountain Buster at 6 stacks yesterday (cause the other tank died during first Superbomb). If I popped Storm's Eye + Thrill of Battle + Holmgang, that would be 10000+ HP dealt (i89 warrior) meaning 2.5k+ HP returned. I agree that using it correctly would be a great gain but the masses will just be either: 1. QQ it's too hard to use. 2. It doesn't help mitigating damage if you're dead (just like Inner Beast in 2.0) 3. OMG so OP.
Holmgang should be used different from Hallowed Ground. I use it when I know the next big damage is going to kill me (6 stacks Titan EX's mountain buster for example) and the healers will top me up after with Benediction or Lustrate and I don't have to dodge anything within the 6 seconds duration.
Added magic defense should be exclusive to warrior.