Tank changes I'd like to see happen.

[Versiroth]

Please note that these suggestions are stickly for PVE. I don't PVP at all, so if some of these would "OMG, Your broke PVP!!", I apologize.

Paladin:

- Add a threat modifier to Circle of Scorn so we can do more than spam Flash during AOE situations. Warriors have Over power, Steel Cyclone and they get flash. Letting the Paladin have an additional AOE that has a threat modifier only makes sense. I'm actually surprised that they added one to Steel Cyclone while leaving Circle of Scorn out.

- Change Shield Swipe into a combo move that works off of Fast Blade-Riot Blade (potency 100 or 280 comboed. Pacification is part of the combo effect) . This would give Paladins a second combo that could be used while off tanking. We could also rotate this with the RoH combo while MTing for extra DPS, mana regen and a chance at Pacification (to help with Mit).

- Since Shield Swipe would no longer have a proc, give it to Shield bash. Shield Bash would work as normal, but also give you a proc that occurs when you block. It would cause it to be instant for 10 seconds. When used under the proc,it has the added effect of pacification for 6 seconds. Also, the proc it self would have a 5 or 10 second cool down once activated to stop it from having 100% up time. This way, you could use it as an interrupt while doing your combos during the proc duration. Also, either make it not break your combos if used during the proc duration or just stop it from breaking your combos altogether. This would be amazing on fights like Siren where she does a Lunatic voice when Spirits is down. As is, I just have to kind of stand there and not do much of nothing because I'm afraid I'll be in GCD lock when Lunatic casts and I'll miss the interrupt.


Warrior:

- Get rid of the current Storms Eye and add it's effects into Butcher's Block. Honestly.. why do the Warriors need three combos? Keeping up all three while MTing is annoying and most warriors I see skip Storms eye a lot of times anyway and simply rotate SP, BB, BB, SP, etc. So, BB would become more like Rage of Halone. It would be our best threat modifier and also raise both tanks DPS and debuff the targets healing received.

- Make the new Storms Eye a self heal cool down. It would be on a 2 minute CD, last 8 seconds and give you a 25% heal based on the damage you sustained over the duration. So, if you take 4K damage over that 8 seconds, you get a 1K heal once it ends. This could be used before huge moves to help the healer get you back up to full health or during burst phases when the healer is having to spam to keep you alive. It would also add to the "self heal" persona of the Warrior. EDIT: Add in the stipulation that the max heal can not exceed 25% of your maximum health.

- Change the duration of Inner beasts damage reduction to 8 seconds. An additional 2 seconds would NOT make this ability over powered. What it would do is make it a little easier to time with big hits, which is the whole purpose of the ability in the first place as the heal is almost useless now.

- Change the duration of Holmgang from 6 seconds to 10 seconds. Also give it a self heal mechanic. Maybe 200% of your damage dealt over the duration. So, if you do 1.5K damage over the 3 or four GCDs you get (more than likely three due to lag, etc), you'll get a 3K heal once it ends. They would also need to up the CD to 5 minutes to make it on par with the Paladin's Holy Ground. They could also make this the level 50 ability instead of Storms Eye (SE would be the level 42 ability, so it would basically switch with Holmgang). As is, your HP drops to 1 and if the healer panics at all, a sneeze will kill you once the effect ends. Not really a good panic button at all. Especially given the fact that it roots you in place making you eat AOEs and such.

- Give Foresight a Magic defense boost to go along with it's physical one. This would benefit both Warriors and Paladins.


Well, there you go. A few changes I would add to make the classes more fun to play and to add some balance to each. The Paladin gets a second combo set, chance for an instant stun, better AOE threat and access to a better cross class Foresight. Warriors would get a more streamlined two combo rotation, more mit in the form of Storms Eye/foresight (and 2 additional seconds for IB) and a panic button that would be a little more on par with Holy Ground.

Thoughts? Also, please be constructive if you can help it... suggestion threads often times turn into "OMG, you just need to L2P!" hate fests and I'm honestly trying to make both tank jobs more fun to play (My Warrior is ilvl 81 and Paladin ilvl 80... I like both!).

[Trearne]

Like it , especially the storms eye change , currently its usually out by the time ive done the storms path combo , usually i only use it when offtanking for a bit of a damage boost , and its wasted when im tanking

[Poosammich]

+++ To the AOE options for Paladin... Its a joke on trash in Coil... I don't even bother anymore, Warr always just holds them all while I get one or two by bouncing RoH. I had no idea Steel Cyclone had an enmity tag on it. I love how they ZOMG have to fix Warr's because of Hallowed Ground meanwhile Pally tanks have a 3 move rotation for AOE tanking... FB/RB/Flash... And good luck pulling more than a few off a Warr if they get the first GCD off. Also big Hell yes on the stopping Shield Bash from breaking combos. Makes me want to stab someone.... Can't add much to the Warr conversation... Only took Marauder to 26 XD

[horaiyo]

I'm surprised cos doesn't have any enmity bonus too, adding one would be a nice addition to pld’s initial ae agro generation without being gamebreaking. As far as the shield swipe thing, the biggest issue is that pacification doesn't work on most bosses (at least as far as I remember) so I don't know if that change would really do a whole lot unless pacification itself was changed. Shield bash not breaking combos would definitely be nice too, but 10 seconds is too much (this is one of those “would break pvp” ideas, you’d be able to chain stun someone for 17 seconds compared to 10 currently).

War stuff I can’t comment on, since I only have a pld.

[Lemon8or]

Circle of Scorn: It's 250 potency compared to 200 potency from Steel Cyclone, is a oGCD attacks and does not interfere with Paladin's ability to mitigate damage while Warriors have to choose between that and Inner Beast.
Shield Swipe + Shield Bash: Shield Bash already stun that interrupts Lunatic Voice. If you're using some other skills, use Spirits Within to silence instead. You should know when it's coming anyway.
Current Storm's Eye: I like it as is. It gives warrior a rotation to do while OTing SE->SP->BB. Mixing it in with BB would mean we would need to use alternate SP and BBx2 even when we OT and would give aggro problem.
New Storm's Eye: I don't like it. Also your example would be 2k health returned. That'd be too much imo.
Inner Beast: 6 seconds is plenty. 8 seconds would honestly make it a bit OP since we can get infuriated every 12-15 seconds in the high damaging phase.

Holmgang: Good communication with healers and timing of when to use this ability is key to make this work.
Foresight: No. Give it exclusively to warrior.
I hate to say it but you need to look at your abilities a bit closer and imagine how to use it effectively.

[Cabalabob]

Why would you put the shield swipe proc onto shield bash? Stun is better than pacification, but there are times I like
Pacifying over stunning, I.E I use shield swipe on ifrits plumes in ifrit HM to stun them without building stun resistance. With your change to shield bash I wouldn't be able to do that anymore.


Rather than a change to shield swipe, I'd like to see a change to bulwark, to make it more interactive. Have a 4 second duration and a 10 second cool down, and change the effect to raises block rate to 100% then rapidly diminishes. So using bulwark, the first second you use it would be 100% block rate, second second would be 50%, third second 25% and 4th second it wears off. This would make shield swipe more reliably usable without changing it, and also change bulwark from a "maybe this will save me" button, to a "if I time this perfectly it WILL save me" button. As a bit of a balancing issue I considered shield oath being changed to -20% damage taken on block, it makes sense seeing as it's shield oath. This way you'd be taking more damage normally but you'd be blocking significantly more frequently so it would balance out.

As for WAR main change I would like to see would be to make mercy stroke heal for 100% of damage dealt whenever you use it, not just on a killing blow, but if used as a killing blow it should heal for 300% of damage dealt. This way it would be useful just as a move to use whenever it's off cool down and the super heal will just be a bonus for good timing. 25% heal with 100% heal on killing blow for cross class version, 100% with 300% on kill for enhanced version.

[Versiroth]

I'm surprised cos doesn't have any enmity bonus too, adding one would be a nice addition to pld’s initial ae agro generation without being gamebreaking. As far as the shield swipe thing, the biggest issue is that pacification doesn't work on most bosses (at least as far as I remember) so I don't know if that change would really do a whole lot unless pacification itself was changed. Shield bash not breaking combos would definitely be nice too, but 10 seconds is too much (this is one of those “would break pvp” ideas, you’d be able to chain stun someone for 17 seconds compared to 10 currently).

War stuff I can’t comment on, since I only have a pld.

Maybe they could add pacification to the shield bash proc instead of to shield swipe. Also, the 10 seconds would only be the duration to use the instant effect. So, upon blocking, you have a 10 second duration to use an instant Shield Bash that would also cause 6 seconds of pacification.

As far as Shield Swipe goes, take the healing debuff from Warriors and give it to Paladins instead? Warriors get Damage debuff and Slashing resistance and Paladins get STR debuff and healing debuff.

As far as PVP goes, they could always make some of these abilities work differently for PVP.

[Versiroth]

Circle of Scorn: It's 250 potency compared to 200 potency from Steel Cyclone, is a oGCD attacks and does not interfere with Paladin's ability to mitigate damage while Warriors have to choose between that and Inner Beast.

Paladin AOE threat is horrible. You can lose threat even if you're spamming Fast/Riot/Flash over and over. For Warriors, you can Overpower a couple times and forget about it. That's not balance.

Shield Swipe + Shield Bash: Shield Bash already stun that interrupts Lunatic Voice. If you're using some other skills, use Spirits Within to silence instead. You should know when it's coming anyway.

Yes, but you have to stand there and do nothing to avoid GCD lock. With the change I recommended, you could continue to combo while the instant effect is up because you could shield bash even if you just finished a RoH. As is, you go into the GCD and you're likely going to miss the interrupt.

Current Storm's Eye: I like it as is. It gives warrior a rotation to do while OTing SE->SP->BB. Mixing it in with BB would mean we would need to use alternate SP and BBx2 even when we OT and would give aggro problem.

Paladins spam RoH a lot of the time when they're off tanking and they never steal aggro from my Warrior. Besides, why would a warrior have to hit BB twice in a row? They could simply rotate BB and SP and keep both debuffs up while doing practically the same DPS. The +30 potency BB has over SP isn't big enough to risk getting aggro. And besides that, if you're really worried about your DPS, you shouldn't be in defiance anyway. So threat shouldn't be an issue even if you did do a SP, BB, BB rotation. My change would allow you to keep all debuffs up while MTing and OTing. As is, you can have threat issues trying to maintain all three while MTing since you're only BBing every 9th GCD.

New Storm's Eye: I don't like it. Also your example would be 2k health returned. That'd be too much imo.

I changed it to 25% as that's what I thought I put in the first place. I think I put 50 while I was still working out the logic and forgot to change it.

Inner Beast: 6 seconds is plenty. 8 seconds would honestly make it a bit OP since we can get infuriated every 12-15 seconds in the high damaging phase.

It's 2 seconds. Again, it would only add a little leeway to your timing. It would not make it OP at all. As is, Warriors who know a fight perfectly don't have issues, were as Warriors that are still learning struggle a bit with the timing.

Holmgang: Good communication with healers and timing of when to use this ability is key to make this work.

Good communication doesn't change the fact that Holmgang is a horrible panic button and is in no way close to Holy Ground at all. You can't even avoid AOE damage while under the effect. My change would do nothing but give a buffer so the healer can heal you back up if the effect ends before they can throw any big heals on you. Not all groups are statics with perfect sync.

Foresight: No. Give it exclusively to warrior.

So, you don't like the added magic defense? Or you just want the magic defense to be exclusive to warrior?

I hate to say it but you need to look at your abilities a bit closer and imagine how to use it effectively.

You missed the point of my suggestions. Just because something works (barely in the case of Holmgang), doesn't mean they can't be improved upon. If everyone had your mind set, games like this wouldn't need patches at all. Why bother when there is never a need for improvements?

[BazFamrit]

Those aren't suggestions there complete overhauls. Each tank has its niche to force groups to use both. If they were each equal in every respect then the only reason to choose one over the other would be aesthetics. If anything I could see some minor tweaks to optimize each tanks strengths. This is a cooperative game so cooperate. The lone wolf mentality can only get you so far.

[whiskeybravo]

When is the healing debuff even useful? Aside from a few Leeching enemies, and NPC type enemies during story quests, I've never seen bosses or other enemies heal.

I do sort of agree that Paladin should have a little something more for OT combo-wise, but there is still quite a bit you can do. Swap to sword oath, RB, CoS, SW if not need for silence, Flash for blind, Stone Skin on the MT, Cover if necessary. By comparison War drops defiance, uses SP and/or SE, Berserk, and maybe some trick Defiance>Infuriate>IB>Defiance or something., but that's about it.

Also, CoS does have higher potency than Steel Cyclone, but SC ignores damage penalty. I would think CoS does generate a little enmity due to threat modifier from shield oath. I'm not opposed to adding a 3x modifier for CoS like Overpower, however.