How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[therpgfanatic]

People aren't eschewing tanking jobs because they aren't fun. People stay away from tanking jobs because they are stressful. If you derp it up as a DD, folks may not even notice - even if you die, it typically just means DPS slows for a while (which, admittedly, can sometimes mean the difference between a win and a loss). If you screw up as a tank, though, a wipe often soon follows. I don't really see anything on the original post's list of recommended changes that would make tanking a less stressful job...

A lot of the changes I recommended would increase the ease at which threat is generated by Paladins. Currently I lose threat if I do anything but spam an uncomboed Rage of Halone, and in certain fights it is hard to off-tank because I cannot generate enough burst threat with every ability tied to GCD (oh yeah I provoke, get one ability in but then lose aggro completely). And then the GCD change would allow me to actually stun during a Halone combo. I also made a suggestion to improve Cover so it is less cumbersome to use.

I'm not sure what to suggest with Warriors, as I haven't leveled one to 50 yet. But the post has a lot of things that would greatly reduce the stress of tanking.

[Versiroth]

Personally, I like playing a Paladin more than a Warrior. At least as a Paladin, you get to do some weaving of GCD/OGCD abilities. You can Fast Blade, Fight or Flight, Savage Blade, Spirits Within, Rage of Halone. With the Warrior, you get three different combos, but everything is linked to the GCD except for your one and only stun. So, it feels like you're just waiting for the GCD non stop most of the time.

Also, I kind of like how they've sprinkled in iconic names instead of going full bore. The game is still new and plenty more jobs/abilities will come in the future. And we'll get tons more nostalgia to go along with it I'm sure.

[Autymnfyres]

I very much appreciate the information in your post, and your suggestions. *Hats off to you. Thanks for sharing this, and here's hoping that some of your tips may be data mined by SE employees with the actual power to incorporate changes.

[Versiroth]

snip

The trick to snap aggro on either tank job is provoke and then a comboed Rage of Halone or Butcher's Block. So, if you know you're about to have to tank swap, you Fast blade, Savage Blade, Provoke, Rage of Halone (threat is yours!). At that point, the other tank should stop attacking for a few seconds to complete the swap. You don't need to build threat in that situation because one provoke puts you at the top of the list anyway. You just have to be ready to keep the threat going once you do provoke. If you're referring to provoking from a DPS, Uncomboed Rage of Halones are your best bet. Provoke, Rage of Halone a couple times and then go into the combo.

Concentraint on getting Full DL/Some CT and your relic. Your threat goes up tremendously with gear and a better weapon.

Also, as far as off tanking goes, I recommend leveling a WHM for Stoneskin. Typically, if I'm Off tanking or on stun duty, I will try to stone skin the MT as much as I can. Rage of Halone combo for the STR down debuff, Stone Skin, Riot Blabe combo, Stone Skin, Rage of Halone combo, etc. if you're spamming the Rage of Halone combo, you're doing it completely wrong. And the same goes for a Warrior except there's really no good reason for them to use they're Butcher's Block combo at all. They have two other combos that raise both tanks DPS and debuffs the enemy. They should just be rotating those for the most part. Again, if you need to do a tank swap, one provoke will put you at the top of the enmity list, so building threat before provoke isn't needed at all.

[ZephyrK]

I stopped skimming when you said you don't have paladin unlocked yet. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.

Tanks are short in every holy trinity mmo. It's never going to change. I tank on a paladin in this game and I love it. It's not a role for everyone, and no change is going to make that different.

Tanks aren't really in short supply in the world's most popular MMO. What did they do to accomplish this? They made them deal more DPS than a DPS dealer, made them nearly indestructible, removed all concern for threat management, and removed the bulk of responsibility for raid scripts.

While I don't think FFXIV has to take such lengths, I do feel tanks in this game are singularly responsible for creating or preventing wipes and that needs dealt with.

[XNihili]

You're missing the point.
<snip>
You better believe if you had a character who had some trademark FF attacks there would be some of them that say, "I have to roll a tank for Riot Blade / Omnislash / Renzokuken ".

Ok. Let's pretend. Let's pretend that they change the name of the abilities. Will it be more fun ? More fun to look at an icon with Omnislash written above it and look at an ability that doesn't look like Omnislash at all (was Omnislash a PLD ability anyway) ?
Protip : make a macro with the name Omnislash on it with the ability you want.

I hate to say this, but a LOT of Paladin i know simply stopped playing the job after they (unjustly) gave Warrior a near-godlike buff when a slight correction would have been sufficient and gave Paladin nothing except a poop-smeared middle finger.

There's your problem why you have so few tanks now. SE made half of them stop playing.

What are those god-like buffs that make Warrior so much better than Paladin ? In most case, my Paladin is doing better (in damage mitigation) than my Warrior with about the same equipment. I would really like to improve my Warrior tanking and ride the flavor of the month.

[Versiroth]

Tanks aren't really in short supply in the world's most popular MMO. What did they do to accomplish this? They made them deal more DPS than a DPS dealer, made them nearly indestructible, removed all concern for threat management, and removed the bulk of responsibility for raid scripts.

While I don't think FFXIV has to take such lengths, I do feel tanks in this game are singularly responsible for creating or preventing wipes and that needs dealt with.

My only real problem with tanks are the moves that can one shot us if we don't throw up CDs. IMO, Mit CDs should be used as emergency abilities. If my HP drops low, I throw up a CD so the healer has time to heal me back up. As is, a double wicked wheel can one shot a Warrior with over 8K HP if he doesn't have Vengeance/Thrill of battle up and also perfectly time an inner beast. That's just silly.

[Versiroth]

What are those god-like buffs that make Warrior so much better than Paladin ? In most case, my Paladin is doing better (in damage mitigation) than my Warrior with about the same equipment. I would really like to improve my Warrior tanking and ride the flavor of the month.

I agree with you. My PLD is ilvl 80 and my Warrior ilvl 81 and I normally roll the Paladin. Honestly, I wish they'd buff warriors a little more. Maybe roll the SE effect into Butcher's block so we don't have to rotate so many combos and then make IB and Holmgang last 10 seconds. Speaking of Holmgang, I'd also like them to make it to were the damage you deal during it's duration is given back to you as 200-300% HP once the effect ends. The only Paladin buff I'd like to see is a threat modifier added to Circle of Scorn so our AOE threat is on par with warriors. As is, spamming Fast-Riot-Flash is boring as heck. Oh, and maybe add a move that combos off of Riot Blade so we have an off tank rotation other than RoH combo.

[DMooseJ]

I don't know. What if the special mount was a literal tank? Hell, I'll take that.

And like everybody else is saying, the problem is responsibility. None of your suggestions allay that problem. 'Fun' is an incredibly subjective thing and different roles have their own points. Some people have 'fun' with the responsibility of tanking and the challenge of coordinating pulls and boss fights, some people just have fun when they shoot stuff and see big numbers.

[ZephyrK]

I don't know. What if the special mount was a literal tank? Hell, I'll take that.

Sure you would. We all would. We would do what was needed to get the mount, then never queue as a tank.