How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[therpgfanatic]

My 2nd Titan HM clear ever was 5 tanks (3 war, 2 pld), 1 mnk for limit break and 2 healers. Only 2 in the group had relics, the rest were there to get theirs. It was a little slower, but we were still able to break the heart and beat it. The healers *loved* it, because we were so much easier to keep alive than normal dps classes, as we had a lot more health to absorb and recover from mistakes. Tank DPS is fine.

LOL

Video or it didn't happen.

Seriously. Nevermind that tank DPS is so low you'd be struggling to break folk free of stones and take down the heart. And because it takes longer to break people free of stones, you'd be highly, highly unlikely to even shave off half of Titan's heart by the time you freed the first person (never mind the 2nd one he does during that phase).

A party like that isn't even balanced to make the limit break bar increase at a decent pace, so claiming that was your strategy is silly.

The best weapon a PLD could have pre-relic is a HQ Mailbreaker, which I used before I got my relic. I know first hand the damage is pathetic, who are you trying to kid?

[Gilthas]

LOL

Video or it didn't happen.

Seriously. Nevermind that tank DPS is so low you'd be struggling to break folk free of stones and take down the heart.

A party like that isn't even balanced to make the limit break bar increase at a decent pace, so claiming that was your strategy is silly.

The best weapon a PLD could have pre-relic is a HQ Mailbreaker, which I used before I got my relic. The damage is pathetic, who are you trying to kid?

I'm pretty sure I read a topic back in the day (before 2.1) about a group of 5 WARs doing Titan HM because no one wanted to do Titan HM with WARs. So yeah, his post is easily believable.

[Giantbane]

LOL

Video or it didn't happen.

Seriously. Nevermind that tank DPS is so low you'd be struggling to break folk free of stones and take down the heart.

A party like that isn't even balanced to make the limit break bar increase at a decent pace, so claiming that was your strategy is silly.

Obviously I'm lying.

Believe what you want. Tank DPS wasn't a problem whatsoever for breaking stones, and we just auto attacked for P1 to build up the limit break for the heart (2 bars was enough to ensure heart was killed).

Here's a different version:

2 WAR, 4 PLD, 2 healers, no DPS limit break:

http://www.twitch.tv/neamberthal/c/3157588

Maybe you need to not suck? (sorry, you did insist I was making it up)

[therpgfanatic]

Obviously I'm lying.

Believe what you want. Tank DPS wasn't a problem whatsoever for breaking stones, and we just auto attacked for P1 to build up the limit break for the heart (2 bars was enough to ensure heart was killed).

Here's a different version:

2 WAR, 4 PLD, 2 healers, no DPS limit break:

http://www.twitch.tv/neamberthal/c/3157588

Maybe you need to not suck? (sorry, you did insist I was making it up)

Maybe you should watch the videos you link to?

Every character in that video has i90+ gear and +1 relics.

You claimed a scenario where only 2 folks even had a relic, and everyone else was not.

This video is a bunch of totally overgeared people, and even they wiped a few times. That's why the video starts with almost 2 limit bars filled.


Claiming tank DPS is fine so long as you are overgeared for the encounter is absolutely moronic and missing the entire point of this thread.

[Sunarie]

The community can improve the situation. Either by being more forgiving of tanks that aren't perfect and trying to help them become better or by defending tanks from jerks that try to belittle them because they made a mistake.

I would agree, and I try to do these things. I'm not gonna pretend I'm the most patient person in the world. I've complained to my boyfriend or FC when I have had a group I wasn't happy with. However, I will never ever insult the person performing the role. I will offer them guidance in the form of suggestions, and advice (assuming I know the role well enough to give it). I think I'm in the minority though. Most people will say nothing if others start being jerks, or if a tank may need some guidance. I don't really foresee the community changing in that aspect, though I would be pleased if it did.

[dragoon0705]

I like my character....i don't wanna be like Cecil or cloud...and HELL no to Titus...If i wanted to be one of them i would play the game they came from.

Tanking is not hard at all right now. I would like to see paladins heal buffed a little bit and have more party based abilities for situations so we don't just sit there and hit 1, 2 and 3. But i mean its a Tab targeting game...Not much you can do with tanks.

[Giantbane]

Maybe you should watch the videos you link to?

Every character in that video has i95 gear and +1 relics.

You claimed a scenario where only 2 folks had a relic, and everyone else was not.

This video is a bunch of totally overgeared people, and even they wiped a few times. That's why the video starts with almost 2 limit bars filled.


Claiming tank DPS is fine so long as you are overgeared for the encounter is absolutely moronic and missing the entire point of this thread.

i95 = allagan weapons, how many allagan weapons do you see?

They died? so what. Lots of groups with 5 dps and 1 tank die attempting titan. Does that mean DPS classes are gimp?

And who cares if their gear is better? First, there's a guy in hoplite in there and some are wearing darklight gear with their +1 weapon, so it's not all i90. Second, if tank DPS was so "pathetic" then it wouldn't matter what they had.

It also wasn't a clean run. 1 PLD fell off at 50% and they lost another healer after that. And they got hit by plumes and bombs too. The benefit of them all being tanks is they can live through it (even in sword oath, no defiance) and they're still standing to do DPS.

Did you forget that 6 tanks means no DPS limit break whatsoever. The difference between my group and this group is that we had a monk for the limit break. The only real possible sticking point in this fight for tanks would be not enough DPS to break the heart. By making sure we built up two bars for the LB, we cleared the heart phase easily, even if someone had fallen off the ledge.

As the poster said above, multiple tank groups against titan were a thing before 2.1. As was stated, nobody wanted to bring warriors because PLD were just flat better at staying alive before 2.1 and you don't need 2 tanks for this fight at all. It's very possible whatever you want to believe.

EDIT: i'm also not saying that tank DPS is fine in that they can wholly and totally replace a DPS class. I'm saying it's fine in that they still provide a solid contribution to the group, and yes, when you over gear content, can replace a DPS class that is geared properly to some extent.

[juniglee]

It was obvious you were talking about holding aggro, and i simply stated how easy that part was, and yet the next part you telling me is even more easy for people with half a brain.

Simple as DPS or healer shouldn't be in between a PLD and Monster. I don't even know why we even talking about that as it is so simple mechanic.

Because holding aggro is the be all end all of playing tank, amirite? Nothing else I should be concerned about, like stunning AoEs, TP management, and the like. They're all such simple mechanics! I press 123, and everything magically happens!

Maybe you should watch the videos you link to?

Every character in that video has i90+ gear and +1 relics.

You claimed a scenario where only 2 folks even had a relic, and everyone else was not.

This video is a bunch of totally overgeared people, and even they wiped a few times. That's why the video starts with almost 2 limit bars filled.

Claiming tank DPS is fine so long as you are overgeared for the encounter is absolutely moronic and missing the entire point of this thread.

How about Titan Extreme then? Would Titan Extreme have any imaginary "gear cap" you've decided to set?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9fE2o0C8qc

1 PLD, 1 WAR, 3 MRD, 1 BLM, 1 WHM, 1 SCH

Regarding his Titan HM thing. Yes you can do it with all that. If I had to bring a Warrior into Titan HM pre-2.1, they'd wear DPS gear and just act as a second DPS. Just like in the video I linked, they had a BLM just for LB during Gaolers, Giantsbane's group had a melee DPS to LB the heart.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

we are a team, we are not the servant of the DD and the healer!

^- this. But DEV made the job like a PET job >.> We not in full control of our job.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

I press 123, and everything magically happens!

Pretty much that yes. Sad ikr? Stun is optional in many case, so is silence, many time is not even required or someone else can perfectly do it too. Positioning is important as much for Tank as it is for healer and DPS, so there is no special skill there, that called Mechanic, it have nothing to do with Tank skill. (Player skill at best, but nothing to do with Tank skill)

So let put it this way, have a tank that know how to position monster (something simple as hell), have him press 1,2,3 macro, and baam, you can win Turn 5, that be just more work for healer with Adloquium / SS / Virus / eye for an eye and so on.

Do i really need to make a video to prove my point?

**Edit: not saying that be mega easy =D, but that would prove that healer make 70% of the work out there, and even a BAD tank with at least the knowledge of mechanic can lead it to the win.

**Edit2: PLD don't always have a CD up for every Death Sentence (every 35 sec), and that not making them die every time is not up, that be sad for turn 5. At best, CD help the healer to save mana or help the healer to stay a bit more relax, but that not what saving a PLD, not even close to be the case.

**Edit 3: If PLD are considered good base on they knowledge of the fight / mechanic, i know many DPS with lv1 PLD that are good PLD. Again, it have nothing to do with PLD skill. I could only agree on WAR job because they combo are more complex and there a lots of space to mess up, but again, they are on healer mercy, they can be good at they combo, it wont change much with a bad healer.