How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[Pr0c3ss0r]

What is a good Tank?

1) Tank that pop his CD and not get one shot?
That not a good Tank Oo, that only require half a brain to understand the job / mechanic Oo

2) Tank that stay alive?
That not a good Tank, that just a good healer that able to keep him alive

3) Tank that can keep aggro?
That not a good tank, that is just a minimum knowledge of what to start with, and spam 3 macro all the fight..

4) Tank that know how to position the monster?
Make monster not face everyone so they don't get raped by cleave or AOE, i mean seriously, that just a common sense.

So in the END, what is a good tank? You can only have a BAD tank in this game and average tank, there is absolutely no way to be classed as a GOOD TANK, and that make the job mega boring and unwanted to play, because tank have very little control in this game. Give Tank a way to stay alive by theyself, or keep his party alive and now you can talk about a good tank and a bad one, or give Tank the same DPS power as everyone.

ATM, the only challenge on PLD or WAR is to stay patient while watching DPS and Healer spamming they mistake.

[Sigred]

give Tank the same DPS power as everyone.

I presume you are being sarcastic here. However, on the off chance that you're serious, nobody would play a dedicated DPS. Hell, why not give everyone the same healing capability, and let's get rid of the enmity table while we're at it. GWII did such a wonderful job with that.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

I presume you are being sarcastic here. However, on the off chance that you're serious, nobody would play a dedicated DPS. Hell, why not give everyone the same healing capability, and let's get rid of the enmity table while we're at it. GWII did such a wonderful job with that.

Well ya, i can half agree about the DPS, but nothing prevent SE to limit 1 or 2 tank per event, also, there is no real reason to prevent a Tank to keep his own self alive.

[ApolloGenX]

Well ya, i can half agree about the DPS, but nothing prevent SE to limit 1 or 2 tank per event, also, there is no real reason to prevent a Tank to keep his own self alive.

Actually there is... it is called the healer role. Tank self healing would make them somewhat pointless. Of course, you suggested giving tanks dps and healing... which means you still wouldn't have "good" tanks- they would just be massively overpowered.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

Actually there is... it is called the healer role. Tank self healing would make them somewhat pointless. Of course, you suggested giving tanks dps and healing... which means you still wouldn't have "good" tanks- they would just be massively overpowered.

In FF11 PLD never replaced a healer, it was also not overpowered. idk where you read me saying they should be top healer or top dps, and i don't even get how you end up to think that i said they should be TOP everything in the game.

[therpgfanatic]

In FF11 PLD never replaced a healer, it was also not overpowered. idk where you read me saying they should be top healer or top dps, and i don't even get how you end up to think that i said they should be TOP everything in the game.

As tends to happen, some people interpret everything as an extreme.

Just like my how request how for a DPS increase was interpreted by a few folks as requesting that Paladins become the top DPS class.

I'm pretty sure White Mages do more damage than Paladins do. There's a lot of wiggle room somewhere between White Mage DPS and Black Mage / Bard / Summoner DPS, and Paladin DPS ought to fall somewhere between the two.

[eagledorf]

I'm pretty sure White Mages do more damage than Paladins do. There's a lot of wiggle room somewhere between White Mage DPS and Black Mage / Bard DPS, and Paladin DPS ought to fall somewhere between the two.

A PLD in Sword Oath can put out reasonable DPS for a long time (you do get TP starved, but it takes time). A WAR outside of Defiance can do approximately the same. PLD and WAR also get DPS boosting cooldowns (FoF, Berserk, Inner Release).

A WHM can either Holy spam and run out of MP fast doing sort of good DPS, or they can use Stone II/AeroII/FA and be a pretty mediocre DPS. A SCH can do quite well sustaining DPS, but without cooldowns and the pet, their DPS is also going to be quite sub-par compared to SMN.

You really have to remember much of a PLD's DPS is auto-attacks and some off-GCD abilities while a WHM is literally only hitting when they get a spell off.

[Grizzlebeard]

So in the END, what is a good tank? You can only have a BAD tank in this game and average tank, there is absolutely no way to be classed as a GOOD TANK,

Please refrain from posting. You're in serious danger of lowering the collective forum IQ.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

Please refrain from posting. You're in serious danger of lowering the collective forum IQ.

Sorry for hurting your feeling =D Is clear you don't understand my point of view.

You can be good as you want on Tank Class, any bad healer will make it look utter shitty.

"AVERAGE TANK" He stay alive, and lead his party to success.
"BAD TANK" He clueless about the mechanic or clueless about how to pop his CD on right time. (which refer to mechanic)
"GOOD TANK" _____________________________________________________________________________________

DPS can know all the mechanic, and still SUX due to low DMG.
Healer can know all the mechanic and still SUX due to slow reaction and whats not.

Can easy outperform as DPS or Healer, but there is like no option to outperform as a Tank job which make them "AVERAGE" at best.

** I clear Turn 5 every week since 2.0, http://www.twitch.tv/corejh/c/3527166 as PLD or WAR, and yes, i still consider myself as "AVERAGE" at best... That group just manage to have awesome healer.

** Feel free if you want fill up the blank space i left next to good tank.

[eagledorf]

Can easy outperform as DPS or Healer, but there is like no option to outperform as a Tank job which make them "AVERAGE" at best.

Eh, basically if you squeeze the best performance possible out of your job you're good. If a WAR pops IB and/or another cooldown for every Death Sentence, has Storm's Path up constantly, manages Wrath well, and uses/combines his other cooldowns and skills wisely, I would say that's "good". If a WAR pops IB for DS, but once in a blue moon is stuck in GCD or something or pops IB for every one, but loses Storms Path because he didn't watch its duration and was waiting for DS that's probably still fairly good to average.

Similarly for PLD, if he's managing and timing his cooldowns well, using Convalesce early for his Scholar, uses Hallowed Ground or cover at just the right moment, uses Stoneskin and Flash to mitigate things (especially Stoneskin requires like perfect timing) as both MT and OT, and always has Halone up, I would call that a good Paladin. If all he's doing is managing his cooldowns well, that's probably already a fairly good to average PLD.

The same is true for every class. If a DPS is putting out reasonable DPS and doesn't screw up their class mechanics (MP management, DoT uptime, GL, Rotation), that's pretty average. If a DPS is really working to maximize their DPS (timing their cooldowns, being intelligent with their buffs/stances/procs/Aetherflow), that's a good DPS. If a SCH keeps the tank alive that's an average SCH. If they apply a shield, Virus, Sacred Soil, or Eye4Eye just when the party or tank needs it and manage their pet well that's a good SCH. WHM, I don't know the class, but hate management, Regen, Stoneskin, cooldowns, and procs seem to set a good WHM apart.

I do agree with you that both tank classes have a simpler/more scripted set of skills than the DPS or healers, but that doesn't mean that there's not plenty a tank can do to set themselves apart from others.

PLD, despite being simple compared to WAR, can be damn fun. Oop, the MT died...healers don't have swiftcast...Provoke->Hallowed Ground! You may feel free to hard-cast Raise or dick around as you like, healers. Hell, you can actually cycle cooldowns while they heal the off tank and all the way until the other tank recovers from weakness. Of course you're probably screwed at this point, but maybe not.