How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[Xandim]

Actually the hardest thing about Titan Hard mode is getting the item level so that groups don't instant kick you. I've wasted 2 hours today already getting kicked from even level appropriate things like King Mog and Ifrit because the same elitist snobs keep appearing in the party and kicking me based on my item level.

I have done the quest up to Titan Hard mode. I can't survive the AOE if I dont get more darklight pieces for more HP.

Do me an enormous favor and stop posting accusational crap about how I am a bad player.

You seem to have the mentality that "you dont need good equips to tank" but you actually DO. IIRC, threat is heavily dependant on your weapon's auto atack status. Your current weapon (assuming you didnt get a new one) is 29.38, while a Curtana +0 is 34.03. That alone is enough to increase your threat generation BIG time. There are no excuses for equips. You as a tank has a near insta-queue on dungeons. Main Scenario Duty Roulette nets you 300 philosophy tomes everyday, Crystal Tower nets you 200 EACH run. Just by doing it once a day you have 500 philosohy tomes (even more if you do CT more times). You should take advantage and do Crystal Tower, since, besides Bone Dragon (and maybe that iron giant boss) the whole fight doesnt need 6 HEAVILY equiped tanks. Hell, in most fights they dont even need that many tanks at all. If you do that, in 2... maybe 3 days you have enough for a full darklight set.

I don't think you are a bad player but you cant go in with ilv50 gear and expect to tank from ilv85+ people, you just can't. As for the rage of halone thinguie, there IS some truth in your words. If you shield lob for that initial threat, then Flash and use 1 or 2 rage of halones out of the combo is enough to keep hate long enough so you can build aggro (using the FULL combo) on the boss.

What im trying to say is: you are not a bad player ( I can only assume, since we never played together), you just need better equips.

I'm not being mean to you by not thanking you for telling me something you read off a guide someone else created, and that I have said several times I am already aware of and taken the time to deeply explain why it's not working in the particular circumstances.

This is why people don't want to be tanks. Even other tanks can be frustrating to talk to about things they didn't personally impact them. You've been around since 1.0 with all your legacy levels and gear, so your experience is different from someone who started recently.

I know this wasn't directed at me, but I started playing on 2.0 and didn't have the issues you did (even tho im legacy, i never played much 1.0, besides, they are both completely different games). When I was having issue tanking is because I was wearing ilv38 gear (when I was lv50) and ilv50 weapon and people already had ifrit/garuda (or even relic). But once I started getting better gear, that started to affect less and less.

[therpgfanatic]

You seem to have the mentality that "you dont need good equips to tank" but you actually DO. IIRC, threat is heavily dependant on your weapon's auto atack status. Your current weapon (assuming you didnt get a new one) is 29.38, while a Curtana +0 is 34.03. That alone is enough to increase your threat generation BIG time. There are no excuses for equips. You as a tank has a near insta-queue on dungeons. Main Scenario Duty Roulette nets you 300 philosophy tomes everyday, Crystal Tower nets you 200 EACH run. Just by doing it once a day you have 500 philosohy tomes (even more if you do CT more times). You should take advantage and do Crystal Tower, since, besides Bone Dragon (and maybe that iron giant boss) the whole fight doesnt need 6 HEAVILY equiped tanks. Hell, in most fights they dont even need that many tanks at all. If you do that, in 2... maybe 3 days you have enough for a full darklight set.

I don't think you are a bad player but you cant go in with ilv50 gear and expect to tank from ilv85+ people, you just can't. As for the rage of halone thinguie, there IS some truth in your words. If you shield lob for that initial threat, then Flash and use 1 or 2 rage of halones out of the combo is enough to keep hate long enough so you can build aggro (using the FULL combo) on the boss.

What im trying to say is: you are not a bad player ( I can only assume, since we never played together), you just need better equips.

I don't have the mentality I don't need better equips.

I have the mentality that I have no control over the Duty Finder throwing me in with i90 folks and expecting me to tank for them.

I didn't design party finder to throw in item lv 50-60 folks in with i90 ones. SE did and they are the ones who have to fix the disparity problem.

And see, I'm of the vocal minority who is posting about the problem. The majority of people experiencing these issues usually just re-roll to a different class or quit the game entirely ( which tends to be easy when you can return to a max lv chara you have in whatever other MMO you also play).

What if they just stuck to the original idea of classes being for solo play...and jobs for group play. Making GLD and MRD damage dealing roles and once they equip their job stones...it drastically changes their skills to generate more threat and do less damage? That way the road to 1-50 would be a different experience then it is today.

That might be a good solution, too.

[Xandim]

I don't have the mentality I don't need better equips.

I have the mentality that I have no control over the Duty Finder throwing me in with i90 folks and expecting me to tank for them.

I didn't design party finder to throw in item lv 50-60 folks in with i90 ones. SE did and they are the ones who have to fix the disparity problem.

And see, I'm of the vocal minority who is posting about the problem. The majority of people experiencing these issues usually just re-roll to a different class or quit the game entirely ( which tends to be easy when you can return to a max lv chara you have in whatever other MMO you also play).



That might be a good solution, too.

Actually you do, you complain that you cant hold aggro when you have crappy gear over people who have way better gear than you, than you propose changes that would make you generate more threat. Guess what? Duty Finder is meant to help people find groups with no restriction. If you want people with ilv50~60 then make a Party Finder for that. Other than that, I already gave you a partial solution for your equip problem. One roulette and 2 or 3 CT a day, in a couple of days, will net you a full darklight set, making you at least ilv70. Titan HM is nowhere as difficult as it was today (mostly because people can be waaaay overgeared for the encounter). DL is enough for you to pass Titan HM even if you gonna MT it. And then you can always join a FC (if you didnt join one yet) and ask for help with Titan.
This is all starting to sound like whining. "I cant hold aggro with my ilv50 gear from ilv90 gear, so SE needs to buff up PLD".

And maybe.... just MAYBE you are the minority because everyone else either, like you said, jump to another class, go back to their high lv in another MMO, OR they man/woman up, realize they are the ones wrong, and either go farm roulette/CT for DL gear and possibly an ilv80 piece of equipment.

I thought your suggestions were really great, actually.

I'm intimidated to play a tank class because I don't want people to yell at me, dare I mess up. A lot of the reason there's a lack of tanks is due to the large responsibility and other douchey players judging their every move.

You gotta start someday somewhere... =P
Try the low lv dungeons, to get a feel of the job and responsability. Try to go with friends and let them know that you wanna play as a tank, but might suck at it in the beginning. If you turn out to be good, your friends will be happy too, cause everyone can use a good tank. And if you turn out to be crappy at tank, at least you can say "well, at least I tried" and you can understand tank better too.

[therpgfanatic]

Actually you do, you complain that you cant hold aggro when you have crappy gear over people who have way better gear than you, than you propose changes that would make you generate more threat. Guess what? Duty Finder is meant to help people find groups with no restriction. If you want people with ilv50~60 then make a Party Finder for that. Other than that, I already gave you a partial solution for your equip problem. One roulette and 2 or 3 CT a day, in a couple of days, will net you a full darklight set, making you at least ilv70. Titan HM is nowhere as difficult as it was today (mostly because people can be waaaay overgeared for the encounter). DL is enough for you to pass Titan HM even if you gonna MT it. And then you can always join a FC (if you didnt join one yet) and ask for help with Titan.
This is all starting to sound like whining. "I cant hold aggro with my ilv50 gear from ilv90 gear, so SE needs to buff up PLD".

And maybe.... just MAYBE you are the minority because everyone else either, like you said, jump to another class, go back to their high lv in another MMO, OR they man/woman up, realize they are the ones wrong, and either go farm roulette/CT for DL gear and possibly an ilv80 piece of equipment.

You gotta start someday somewhere... =P
Try the low lv dungeons, to get a feel of the job and responsability. Try to go with friends and let them know that you wanna play as a tank, but might suck at it in the beginning. If you turn out to be good, your friends will be happy too, cause everyone can use a good tank. And if you turn out to be crappy at tank, at least you can say "well, at least I tried" and you can understand tank better too.

Again, you blaming the player for the short-comings of a system. This will not result in more people playing tanks, as my solutions would.

If a tank can enter the encounter then according to the game's design, the tank should have the item level that the encounter is designed for.

A tank should not need to run story mode constantly to jump from i50 to i70 in one go, solely because it is throwing the tank into parties with top tier geared players. Furthermore the i90 people appear in the story mode Duty Finder, too so that doesn't solve the problem at all.

And telling the tank to not use Duty Finder for the precise purpose it was created for is not a solution.

There is a problem here. It needs fixing.

I thought your suggestions were really great, actually.

I'm intimidated to play a tank class because I don't want people to yell at me, dare I mess up. A lot of the reason there's a lack of tanks is due to the large responsibility and other douchey players judging their every move.

I appreciate your post. And as you can see in this thread, there are a lot of players quick to blame the other player for issues the game design has, rather than think critically about whether the system needs improvements.

At this point I'm basically repeating myself, as more people come into the thread saying the same things and not reading the whole thread. Hopefully SE does something good with the feedback. There is a lot to love about this game and I want to see it keep getting better.

I'm at my post cap for today so I'm gonna respond to the post made below here.

So let me get this straight: there is NOTHING you can do on your own to improve your gameplay? The ONLY solution available is for Yoshi to buff up PLD because YOU want?

I didn't say to NOT use the duty finder, but if you use the DF you gotta be prepared for everything. Dont want that? Start a party for ilv50~60. Roulette bonus is only ONCE a day so no, you wont run the story dungeon constantly. Crystal Tower should be the next dungeon for progression after you get you ilv70 gear (DarkLight).
Still feel like whining to me..... Do ONE roulette, 2 crystal tower. How is that "running story mode constantly"?

Dude, how many times do I have to say it?

Yoshi wants more tanks. Tanks have a lot of frustrating aspects about them no other role has. The game needs improvements if there are going to be more players willing to play a tank, end of story.

And who the heck is gonna let a fresh 50 go do Crystal Tower? Plus it's a quest chain just to unlock it.

You keep acting as if I personally am sitting here twiddling my thumbs complaining on forums and waiting for things to change. I have Darklight gear. I have all but Titan HD done for the relic quest.

And it's not like I will forget how being a pre-50 tank and a new 50 tank was like when I am fully geared. It wont change the experience for those who come after me either.

This thread is a perfect demonstration of why most of the community doesn't want to be a tank.

[Xandim]

Again, you blaming the player for the short-comings of a system. This will not result in more people playing tanks, as my solutions would.

If a tank can enter the encounter then according to the game's design, the tank should have the item level that the encounter is designed for.

A tank should not need to run story mode constantly to jump from i50 to i70 in one go, solely because it is throwing the tank into parties with top tier geared players. Furthermore the i90 people appear in the story mode Duty Finder, too so that doesn't solve the problem at all.

And telling the tank to not use Duty Finder for the precise purpose it was created for is not a solution.

There is a problem here. It needs fixing.



I appreciate your post. And as you can see in this thread, there are a lot of players quick to blame the other player for issues the game design has, rather than think critically about whether the system needs improvements.

So let me get this straight: there is NOTHING you can do on your own to improve your gameplay? The ONLY solution available is for Yoshi to buff up PLD because YOU want?

I didn't say to NOT use the duty finder, but if you use the DF you gotta be prepared for everything. Dont want that? Start a party for ilv50~60. Roulette bonus is only ONCE a day so no, you wont run the story dungeon constantly. Crystal Tower should be the next dungeon for progression after you get you ilv70 gear (DarkLight).
Still feel like whining to me..... Do ONE roulette, 2 crystal tower. How is that "running story mode constantly"?

[lxSch]

A tank should not need to run story mode constantly to jump from i50 to i70 in one go, solely because it is throwing the tank into parties with top tier geared players. Furthermore the i90 people appear in the story mode Duty Finder, too so that doesn't solve the problem at all.
And who the heck is gonna let a fresh 50 go do Crystal Tower?

I found the easiest way to i90 is to unlock AK and WP only and run the daily high roulette for 70 myth in 40 min - both inst are easy and nearly failproof. I did many runs with tankers who could not hold aggro and it went fine. Having a +1 relic dps is a big advantage there - they will burst mobs 1 by 1 and speed up the run; if they go full aoe mode - i just stop healing them, if they rage quit - ok, dps replacement is instant.

[ShigMan]

OP, I do not understand how you arrived at your conclusion. I read your post, and I just do not understand the changes you want to make. Can you please break them down for plebians such as myself who have only tanked up to Twintania?