How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[Tiggy]

On the grounds of THIS CHART. I'm basing my assumptions on the chart, which I clearly stated is NOT a correct representation of the actual population of jobs that people play on a regular basis. The CHART says DD 51%, Tank 23%, Healer 20% - hence, healers are the bottleneck BY THIS CHART. This is clearly not the case in-game, where healers regularly have to wait for queues, and tanks rarely do.

As for opinions, it's not hard to see from experience that yes, tanks get into queues instantly, and healers have to wait a short while, as I play both WHM and PLD. DD's do enough complaining on the forums to make it clear that the queues are worst of all for them. So, yes, this chart is clearly not usable as proof that there's no queue problem. All very tidy empirical data, accumulated through first-hand experience and second-hand reports.

That number is also many months old. It's not really useful to diagnose today's experiences.

[Duelle]

You are mistaken... DRG do have a stun (with the same cooldown as a warrior) and MNK has 2 stuns and a silence. It's the people you play with (and the tendency to only use ranged) which makes the tank do interrupts. Don't blame the game mechanics. In fact, the sole fact that you didn't know this invalidates your entire argument.

Oh, I know about Leg Sweep, Arm of the Destroyer and Shoulder Tackle. Shield Bash's ease of use has made those basically obsolete for the majority of the playerbase because it's easier to tell the PLD with a stun that has no cooldown and an off-GCD silence to do that instead of having the DPS do it. So yes, the mechanics are very much to blame.

Let's also consider that real interrupts are generally attacks that do no damage at all and simply cancel spellcasting. My guess is that they wanted to limit interrupt useage by tying them to abilities with effects that have diminishing returns (stuns, pacification), but we may have been just as well off if not better by giving DPS interrupts with 10-second cooldowns.

The tendency to use only ranged came about because of lacking mechanics and raid design, as raid dungeon design should encourage balanced comps instead of all melee or all ranged.

[Sadana]

They should figure out a way to either display damage mitigated as its happening, or add cool animations to show dmg is being mitigated by the tank...

I love this! You're right that dps get all excited at their damage numbers, healers get to be excited at their healing numbers... tanks should be able to be excited over their damage taken numbers. ^_^ Makes sense to me!
....

I was wondering, what about making hate generation easier (and yes, I fear using that word here) for tanks? Aren't tanks yelled at most often if they let a mob slip away to go nom on a dps or healer?

I will agree that targeting with a ps3 controller is awful. Why does it select a mob across the room rather than the one next to me? I get the whole character-view not camera-view thing, but still. :-/

I get the argument that it's the players not the game that makes tanking unappealing. What can the devs do to make tanking less rage inspiring?

I'm a big FF fan myself, but renaming abilities wouldn't really do much for me. :-/

(Tank alt at level 23 MRD, level 16 GLD. Afraid to go any farther.)

[SummonerSenah]

Melee targeting is problematic on a PC as well, at least in my experience. If I accidentally tab off Acheron, and hit tab to get back on him, it doesn't work even though he's literally in my face and also the only enemy in the room.

[Nahara]

• Change ‘Spirits Within’ to ‘Hallowed Bolt’ (Orlando and Aegis’ iconic Holy Sword ability from FFT, using the revised translation from the PSP version WotL. Since “Spirits Within” is clearly a holy attack that adds Silence I’m pretty sure this is what the move was inspired by). Also remove the HP decrease reduces Potency penalty, that is completely unnecessary and reduces the usefulness of the attack for no good reason.

Spirits Within is a sword weapon skill from FFXI that dealt damage based on the user's current HP.

[Noshpan]

I'll main a tank when people stop behaving like petulant toddlers throwing temper tantrums. But since that is never going to happen...

[Giantbane]

The chart was a snapshot view of what people on their current jobs were. It wasn't a view of what people have levelled, but what people were currently playing as. "Other" refers to DoL and DoH.

Tank queues for any instance are always instant, or at bare minimum, shorter than any other role by far. Sometimes healers queues for CT are longer than they are for DPS. 99% of the time, the needed class for duty roulette is Tank in all categories.

Whether or not the graph is true, it actually gives little to no useful information whatsoever.

[Remn]

Melee targeting is problematic on a PC as well, at least in my experience. If I accidentally tab off Acheron, and hit tab to get back on him, it doesn't work even though he's literally in my face and also the only enemy in the room.

then use " target closest enemy" it will target the mob closest to you, lot easier then cycling thru all mob

[LineageRazor]

I'll main a tank when people stop behaving like petulant toddlers throwing temper tantrums. But since that is never going to happen...

Basically, that's the real solution. It isn't a problem that SE is ever going to fix, because the problem is with the FFXIV player community, not with any game mechanic.

I disagree, though, with the assumption that it CAN'T be fixed. Certainly it won't be easy, but every player has the option to lead by example. When you see a tank performing badly (or that you perceive to be performing badly, at any rate), don't jump down their throat. Especially if they seem inexperienced, rather than incompetent.

Even if the poor performance of the tank directly results in the loss of the instance, throwing a hissy fit about it will do nothing productive. Chances are the tank knew they dun bad and are feeling bad enough about it already. An ego-lashing on top of that is just going to make them want to hang up their sword or axe and join the teeming throngs of DDs already waiting in line.

Honestly, kindness and consideration towards other players, rather than assuming that everyone but you is trying to slack off as much as possible, will do a lot to improve the general atmosphere of the game and make players more likely to brave the scrutiny that tanks regularly find themselves under.

[Giantbane]

What I know for a fact is I have to play Paladin in a way that it's not really designed to be played. In an eight man if I don't spam Rage of Halone I can't maintain aggro on bosses. If I try to do any other combos I end up losing threat. It's a particular problem as an off-tank, because I sometimes cannot generate enough burst threat to pull an add off DPS, like in Garuda. I know this is the case for other Paladins because I've read enough discussions about the matter.

I am pretty sure none of the other classes need to spam their finisher move and forsake the majority of their skill list in to do their jobs. Paladins are not right.

Paladin's play exactly as they are intended. They're extremely straightforward. You use the halone combo for threat and damage reduction, shield lob to get initial threat from a distance, and flash for AoE threat (or to blind a single target). They don't have a secondary resource to worry about (wrath stacks), their abilities are on demand (no build up, no using abilities in combination with others to maximize effectiveness), and their cooldown abilities have a decent duration so you can be a little sloppy when timing their use.

Your biggest problem is that your gear is very weak compared to those who are pulling threat off you. Get a better weapon and you should be ok. If you're having trouble with ifrit, garuda or king mog for some reason, you can always get the crafted HQ lvl 70 sword. It's pretty cheap on the market board (at least on my server). And if you want to save more money, farm up enough philo tomes to purchase the 9 coke required and see if you can find a crafter to make it for you. Just make sure you're getting an HQ version, the normal version is junk (just like normal crafted anything...) With the changes to threat in 2.1, this should be all you need as long as your rotation is good. If you're still having trouble after this, make a post on the tank forum asking for advice, you're likely doing something wrong.

The intended design of paladin is pretty sound. Their base mechanics are very simple compared to any other class. But this is so you can focus on other aspects of tanking, IE: positioning enemies, picking up adds, dodging attacks, etc.

War is a (little) more involved tank for those that prefer this style. It's still not as complicated as a melee DPS, but they've got 3 combos to work with, need to manage their wrath stacks to use some abilities, and inner beast's duration is pretty short so you need to be more precise when using it to reduce heavy incoming attacks. I would say if paladin is boring you then you may find warrior more interesting.