How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[Xandim]

When every other Dragoon I see is named Highwind, and an unusually large number of players I've met have never played an MMO before by their own admittance...I do not think it is wrong to assume a lot of people are trying this game because they are Final Fantasy fans.

You are confusing fans with die-hard fans. Highwind is 'famous' because he was a main character in FF4 and the first dragoon, just like Cecil, Celes or Terra are famous. But does it mean that every highwind knows by heart EVERYTHING about ALL games in the franchise? I played FF6 but didn't know that Rio Blade was a move from there (I believe you said that, right? Can't remember right now). I consider myself a fan of the franchise, as do other people, but doesn't mean we KNOW everything bout everything. Yoshi is already doing lots of fan service (LB names, golden saucer, etc). Simply renaming a move won't make people go "OMG, IM SO GONNA PLAY THAT CLASS NOW"

[juniglee]

Simply renaming a move won't make people go "OMG, IM SO GONNA PLAY THAT CLASS NOW"

I don't think it's so much renaming a move, as giving the class a signature ability.

For example, Jump is traditionally a Dragoon skill. Similarly, Kick/Chakra are signature Monk skills across the FF games. Flare, Ultima for Black Mages, Holy for White Mages, etc.

I'm up for tanks having a signature ability, but probably not one that deals huge damage, like Omnislash/Renzokuken/what not.

[Xandim]

I don't think it's so much renaming a move, as giving the class a signature ability.

For example, Jump is traditionally a Dragoon skill. Similarly, Kick/Chakra are signature Monk skills across the FF games. Flare, Ultima for Black Mages, Holy for White Mages, etc.

I'm up for tanks having a signature ability, but probably not one that deals huge damage, like Omnislash/Renzokuken/what not.

But they do have, albeit a rather semi-useless one. Cover has been in almost all FF since FF4 I believe. I always wanted for Cover to act more like in another game (Hint: Devotion).

Well, unless you mean a DD skill, then they got none I think =P

[therpgfanatic]

I don't know about if Warriors are more fun.

What I know for a fact is I have to play Paladin in a way that it's not really designed to be played. In an eight man if I don't spam Rage of Halone I can't maintain aggro on bosses. If I try to do any other combos I end up losing threat. It's a particular problem as an off-tank, because I sometimes cannot generate enough burst threat to pull an add off DPS, like in Garuda. I know this is the case for other Paladins because I've read enough discussions about the matter.

I am pretty sure none of the other classes need to spam their finisher move and forsake the majority of their skill list in to do their jobs. Paladins are not right.

And then if I need to stun I basically cannot do anything but auto-attack and stun, since if I try to attack the boss he will nearly always start his casting when my global cooldown has just started.

If you don't play a tank and think everything is great due to philosophical beliefs like "tanks dont dps" then you really have no understanding of the things I'm talking about. And perhaps things are fantastic if you're at the top of the gear tier, but most players aren't going to invest hundreds of hours into playing in order to finally have fun.

I've been down this road a few times in other MMOs. I know the devs will eventually make improvements because they want players to enjoy the game, but it'll only happen if players speak up.

[Giantbane]

What I know for a fact is I have to play Paladin in a way that it's not really designed to be played. In an eight man if I don't spam Rage of Halone I can't maintain aggro on bosses. If I try to do any other combos I end up losing threat. It's a particular problem as an off-tank, because I sometimes cannot generate enough burst threat to pull an add off DPS, like in Garuda. I know this is the case for other Paladins because I've read enough discussions about the matter.

I am pretty sure none of the other classes need to spam their finisher move and forsake the majority of their skill list in to do their jobs. Paladins are not right.

Paladin's play exactly as they are intended. They're extremely straightforward. You use the halone combo for threat and damage reduction, shield lob to get initial threat from a distance, and flash for AoE threat (or to blind a single target). They don't have a secondary resource to worry about (wrath stacks), their abilities are on demand (no build up, no using abilities in combination with others to maximize effectiveness), and their cooldown abilities have a decent duration so you can be a little sloppy when timing their use.

Your biggest problem is that your gear is very weak compared to those who are pulling threat off you. Get a better weapon and you should be ok. If you're having trouble with ifrit, garuda or king mog for some reason, you can always get the crafted HQ lvl 70 sword. It's pretty cheap on the market board (at least on my server). And if you want to save more money, farm up enough philo tomes to purchase the 9 coke required and see if you can find a crafter to make it for you. Just make sure you're getting an HQ version, the normal version is junk (just like normal crafted anything...) With the changes to threat in 2.1, this should be all you need as long as your rotation is good. If you're still having trouble after this, make a post on the tank forum asking for advice, you're likely doing something wrong.

The intended design of paladin is pretty sound. Their base mechanics are very simple compared to any other class. But this is so you can focus on other aspects of tanking, IE: positioning enemies, picking up adds, dodging attacks, etc.

War is a (little) more involved tank for those that prefer this style. It's still not as complicated as a melee DPS, but they've got 3 combos to work with, need to manage their wrath stacks to use some abilities, and inner beast's duration is pretty short so you need to be more precise when using it to reduce heavy incoming attacks. I would say if paladin is boring you then you may find warrior more interesting.

[Giantbane]

In my mind there's basically one solution to this. Make an awesome iconic class a tank, and you'll get a bunch of people playing it.

PLD and WAR are kinda vanilla compared to the other currently available jobs, there's a bigger draw to BLM, DRG, SMN, etc ... and that's aside from the general mindset that more people want to play DPS than tanks.

If they were to add Samurai (with katana) or Soldier (Cloud) as tank jobs, I think it would be less of a problem.

[Moirear]

I read the original post to this topic. Then read the rest of the thread. This sums up my opinion on how you'd get more tanks:

In my mind there's basically one solution to this. Make an awesome iconic class a tank, and you'll get a bunch of people playing it.

PLD and WAR are kinda vanilla compared to the other currently available jobs, there's a bigger draw to BLM, DRG, SMN, etc ... and that's aside from the general mindset that more people want to play DPS than tanks.

If they were to add Samurai (with katana) or Soldier (Cloud) as tank jobs, I think it would be less of a problem.

The suggestions on how to "fix" GLD/PLD would do nothing. If it's not involved enough for you, try getting all cross-class skills you can have at your disposal for PLD. This involves leveling up CNJ to 34 and MRD to 27. IMHO this makes PLD a bit more interesting to play because it provides you with a handful of new options.

Personally, I really enjoy tanking in this game, especially on WAR. It's more focused on damage reversal combined with heavy hitting than the PLD's straightforward damage mitigation.

The one thing I agree with in the original post, though, is that a lot of pre-endgame leading up to level 50 as PLD makes GLD a very boring class to start out with. Every other class and job is more interesting to play up to endgame. Pre-endgame, I found PLD quite lackluster when compared to WAR.

[therpgfanatic]

You are confusing fans with die-hard fans. Highwind is 'famous' because he was a main character in FF4 and the first dragoon, just like Cecil, Celes or Terra are famous. But does it mean that every highwind knows by heart EVERYTHING about ALL games in the franchise? I played FF6 but didn't know that Rio Blade was a move from there (I believe you said that, right? Can't remember right now). I consider myself a fan of the franchise, as do other people, but doesn't mean we KNOW everything bout everything. Yoshi is already doing lots of fan service (LB names, golden saucer, etc). Simply renaming a move won't make people go "OMG, IM SO GONNA PLAY THAT CLASS NOW"

Yeah it's great that Black Mages swing a Buster Sword with their limit break.

Tanks never get to use our Limit Break though.

There are issues. Denying them is not solving anything.

[juniglee]

Yeah it's great that Black Mages swing a Buster Sword with their limit break.

Tanks never get to use our Limit Break though.

There are issues. Denying them is not solving anything.

I seem to recall tanks use their LB 99.9% of the time in Ultima HM.

There's just no content in this game where we are required to use a tank limit break to make content easier outside of that.

[Xandim]

Yeah it's great that Black Mages swing a Buster Sword with their limit break.

Tanks never get to use our Limit Break though.

There are issues. Denying them is not solving anything.

Im guessing you mean DRG and MNK instead of BLM for the Buster Sword LB =P

As for tanks, they are tanks, so its only natural that their LB IS around tanking. But hey, at least on Ultima we get to use it... right? =P

Im not saying to deny it, just saying that some issues have higher prioritys than others (like the LB system should have priority over a name convention)