How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[therpgfanatic]

I know from experience that the names of things matter a great deal to a significant portion of players. Final Fantasy has a lot of sacred cows to it, and the most die-hard fans hold this stuff pretty close to their chest.

It may not matter to you if Riot Blade is a crappy ability, but when FF6 came out it was my favorite game for months and months. You better believe seeing Riot Blade trigger made me quite excited, and this nostalgia still burns in me even decades later. The same is true of others in my age demographics, who happen to also be the target age demographic for MMORPGs.

[therpgfanatic]

I can see where the linked thread is coming from with playing on our attachments between older, iconic FF characters and our own characters (/abilities) in this game -- but not for a single millisecond do I believe simply renaming abilities will make the tank class(es) fun to play.

Renaming things was only part of the suggestion, there were gameplay tweaks I recommended as well to make the class less frustrating. I'm actually happy with the animations for Gladiator / Paladin, I just wish they did more damage and GCD wasn't turning my chara into an auto-attacking stunbot in certain encounters requiring lots of stunning.

[therpgfanatic]

It's all about balance in an online game. You can't expect a tank to dish out enough dmg to compare to a DPS role, the PLD's dmg is fine as it is (after all, he IS there to tank, not DPS)

I've played MMORPGs since the mid 90s. I have experienced this kind of debate every possible way you can sling it, because old-school MMORPG devs had the same attitude you have.

And they were 100% mistaken, as all those games rebalanced so tanks could deal decent DPS, and that was the only thing that ever increased the number of tanks to the levels needed to reduce wait times for players to acceptable levels. It doesn't unbalance the game if tanks are able to DPS while tanking. It's only unbalanced if they are the best DPS while not getting hit by enemies.

I didn't design Paladins. I would have made Shield Swipe part of a combo if that was the case, rather than a low threat ability.

There are many ways to fix the issue, the point is stuff needs changing and here is a bunch of well thought ideas on how. It's a good starting point. But we must admit there is a problem; denying there is a problem just because it doesn't personally impact you is not constructive to the greater community.

[Spellbinder]

FFXI version didn't have Silence to it though. Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt does.

Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt didn't scale based on HP. So what's your point?

[Xandim]

and the most die-hard fans hold this stuff pretty close to their chest.
It may not matter to you if Riot Blade is a crappy ability,

But then again not everyone playing IS a die-hard fan of Final Fantasy. I get it's cool to see moves you know appeared in any other final fantasy, but FFXIV still has its own lore. Like for example, "Rage of Halone". Halone is a goddess of war and she is "depicted as a relentless warrioress armed with a bronze greatshield." So the name actually fits in with lore. But then again, I agree that some fights are very boring for a PLD (I hate being some stun ho for ifrit)

There ARE some aspects of the game that should change, but that isnt only to a class or another, its more to the game itself.

[therpgfanatic]

Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt didn't scale based on HP. So what's your point?

It doesn't scale based on HP. That would imply it did more damage as my HP numbers got higher.

It actually reduces its max potential damage based on your HP going below 100%.

[therpgfanatic]

But then again not everyone playing IS a die-hard fan of Final Fantasy. I get it's cool to see moves you know appeared in any other final fantasy, but FFXIV still has its own lore. Like for example, "Rage of Halone". Halone is a goddess of war and she is "depicted as a relentless warrioress armed with a bronze greatshield." So the name actually fits in with lore. But then again, I agree that some fights are very boring for a PLD (I hate being some stun ho for ifrit)

There ARE some aspects of the game that should change, but that isnt only to a class or another, its more to the game itself.

When every other Dragoon I see is named Highwind, and an unusually large number of players I've met have never played an MMO before by their own admittance...I do not think it is wrong to assume a lot of people are trying this game because they are Final Fantasy fans.

The PS3 versions especially are enabling people who don't have gaming PCs to play. I've seen a similar thing occur in Phantasy Star Online.

As for the "lore" about the shield, it is a brand new lore made for this game. You're misunderstanding my point there in that we have no emotional attachment to The Twelve because they don't even appear in the game, unless you consider the opening cutscene having a bunch of floating orbs to be an "appearance".

Compared to, say, Odin who has been in like 30 games in the series.

[Spellbinder]

It doesn't scale based on HP. That would imply it did more damage as my HP numbers got higher.

It actually reduces its max potential damage based on your HP going below 100%.

So what you're saying is, the damage dealt by Spirits Within will change depending on how much HP you have?

[veg]

I think tanks are fun as they are... paladin isnt quite as fun (imho of course) but still fun none the less.

[therpgfanatic]

So what you're saying is, the damage dealt by Spirits Within will change depending on how much HP you have?

No.

What I am saying is it does less damage if you are tanking. Which is another reason why the designers don't seem to fully understand what is wrong with tanks and need some exhaustive feedback on what players don't like about them.

The defensive mechanics are good, but the offensive mechanics are completely backward.