How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[Spellbinder]

Aside from the slap in the face to the localization team these suggestions appear to be, the only thing that really irked me is the assumption that Spirits Within was taken from the movie, when in all likelihood the name was taken from the Final Fantasy 11 sword skill Spirits Within, which also did damage based on HP (oh hey, what a coincidence!).

[therpgfanatic]

Aside from the slap in the face to the localization team these suggestions appear to be, the only thing that really irked me is the assumption that Spirits Within was taken from the movie, when in all likelihood the name was taken from the Final Fantasy 11 sword skill Spirits Within, which also did damage based on HP (oh hey, what a coincidence!).

FFXI version didn't have Silence to it though. Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt does. At any result

I'm not trying to slap anyone's face. I'm just giving 100% truthful feedback as a long time Final Fantasy fan who has had a lot of fun with this game, and wishes to see the community grow to rival the other top MMOs.

[Spellbinder]

FFXI version didn't have Silence to it though. Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt does.

Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt didn't scale based on HP. So what's your point?

[therpgfanatic]

Lightning Stab / Hallowed Bolt didn't scale based on HP. So what's your point?

It doesn't scale based on HP. That would imply it did more damage as my HP numbers got higher.

It actually reduces its max potential damage based on your HP going below 100%.

[Spellbinder]

It doesn't scale based on HP. That would imply it did more damage as my HP numbers got higher.

It actually reduces its max potential damage based on your HP going below 100%.

So what you're saying is, the damage dealt by Spirits Within will change depending on how much HP you have?

[therpgfanatic]

So what you're saying is, the damage dealt by Spirits Within will change depending on how much HP you have?

No.

What I am saying is it does less damage if you are tanking. Which is another reason why the designers don't seem to fully understand what is wrong with tanks and need some exhaustive feedback on what players don't like about them.

The defensive mechanics are good, but the offensive mechanics are completely backward.

[juniglee]

So what you're saying is, the damage dealt by Spirits Within will change depending on how much HP you have?

If you didn't know this, yes it does. Damage dealt is proportional to amount of HP the PLD has when it is used.

To be fair, I've never ever thought that the Potency changing of Spirits Within was ever a problem. I simply use it as an off-GCD skill for extra damage, whatever it's worth, and for the Silence portion of the ability. If I wanted to worry about damage dealt, I'd be playing a Dragoon/Monk/Bard/Black Mage/Summoner.

If you remove global cooldowns, you are essentially removing what semblance we have of an ATB battle system. Like think FF7, an Action bar needed to be filled before you could take an action.

I don't find tanking boring, I think the skills mesh well with each other (for PLD at least).

[Spellbinder]

If you didn't know this, yes it does. Damage dealt is proportional to amount of HP the PLD has when it is used.

Yes I knew juniglee, and thank you for affirming the statement I made earlier.

[・・・] when in all likelihood the name was taken from the Final Fantasy 11 sword skill Spirits Within, which also did damage based on HP (oh hey, what a coincidence!).

[Seabreeze]

So after reading your entire post, here are my thoughts...

Sure, my Gladiator looks really bad-ass doing his FF style attack animations but he looks bad ass while doing very little damage

You're a tank, you're not supposed to deal a lot of damage. Again, you said you worked for an MMO and you claimed to have played MMOs for over 30 years (yeah...) yet you don't seem to know anything about them.

Because hardcore MMO gamers like myself

You call yourself a hardcore gamer, and you still don't even have full Darklight or a relic by this point?

At least change the darn ability names. I believe this is a small and not time consuming tweak that would have a huge impact

"Huge impact"? No. Because nobody cares.

Furthermore the MMO battle mechanic of tanks do little damage but generate high threat is a very antiquated idea that modern MMOs no longer use because it has always resulted in less people willing to play tanks

What are you even talking about? Are you saying tanks should deal more damage than the actual damage dealers, while still being incredibly defensive? Then what is the point of having damage dealers in the first place?You keep saying "in WoW...", yet you also said "if I wanted to play WoW, I'd go play WoW".You complain about the ability Cover and want it to automatically apply on a friendly player. On my paladin I've got a macro that casts Cover on the enemy's target. So if I lose enmity on a mob, I'll just press my macro while targeting that mob, and it'll cast Cover on the player. Try it.

Move Circle of Scorn to level 30... If you make the player wait until 50 you will do nothing but discourage him from playing a Paladin at all

I don't understand your logic.

Remove global cooldown triggering from the following abilities:..

You keep saying you don't want the game to feel like other games (WoW in particular), but you also keep saying you want the game to feel like other games...

I would suggest giving Gladiators a powerful single-target attack with a x15 threat multiplier (same as spamming 3 Halones)

Because you're lazy? Seriously though, that is not needed at all.

Right now all we can do is spam a non-comboed Rage of Halone, which makes it hard to do things like pickup adds

Why would you spam a non-combo Rage of Halone..? :/

Again the reward for playing a tank is that the players gets to be a main protagonist inspired character like Cecil, Terra, Squall, Cloud, Tidus, etc

...

Remove TP cost from Sprint, the existing cooldown is sufficient for balance

Yeah, no.

Add Esuna to list of cross-class skills for Paladin... Cecil had Esuna so as a player I wonder why don’t I have it?

Because you're not Cecil... Again, you are playing Final Fantasy XIV, not one of the previous games.

We never get to limit break

Nope!

If you make Warriors and Paladins more fun to play then you will see more players selecting them as a main Job

It doesn't matter how fun the class is, tanks will ALWAYS be the least played class in any MMO, I figured you'd know that by now, having played MMOs for over 30 years and all... Anyways, I've got a lv 50 warrior, a lv 41 paladin (which I'm currently leveling) and another lv 40 paladin and I absolutely love both of the classes. From what I can read in your post, it seems like you'd much rather play a monk... (powerful attacks, shorter global cooldown, limit break etc.)

[therpgfanatic]

Then what is the point of having damage dealers in the first place?You keep saying "in WoW...", yet you also said "if I wanted to play WoW, I'd go play WoW".

Most of your post is troll bait, and I've clarified much of the other statements like "you want tanks to do more damage than DPS" stuff in prior responses (short answer, no, they just need to do MORE damage so I don't feel like my purpose is to be a punching bag that doesn't fight back. There is such a disparity between the DPS of other classes and tanks, which is all the more frustrating when many of the DPS players in a Duty Finder group suck terribly and cause wipes. If I'm off-tank in Titan HM, my efforts to do things like break a rock in Titan HM may as well not exist at all. I can dodge every dodgable attack Titan throws and we'll still wipe if nobody breaks the rocks, and even if I am trying the effort is in vain due to the poor design of the class. Especially frustrating because a single DPSer can break the rocks by themselves).

But to respond to the above section; you are combining two different statements together to make them seem contradictory.

1. At the start, I said I do not want to play a character that feels like a World of Warcraft character in the way the tank is designed. I said this because tanks do not have many iconic abilities common to Final Fantasy melee characters, and they play nothing like these past protagonists and much of the gameplay is adopted from how tanks play in games like WoW, EQ and so forth. My character doesn't even have a personal limit breaks, which nearly every FF game protagonist has had since 6. And the limit break we tanks do have, nobody wants us to use it outside one single instance which we won't be able to enter until we're in at least full i70 gear.

2. When talking about how increasing DPS for tanks would not break the game, I referred to World of Warcraft and how the tank population increased after Blizzard buffed tank DPS. That isn't saying "make the game like WoW", it is showing that you can buff DPS and not cause the game to be broken.

You can claim "Cecil is in a different game" but yet we have Magitek armor from FF6, the Crystal Tower from FF2, armor from FF1 and so on. All the magic classes have spells that follow naming conventions for the North American localizations of FF1, 4 and 6. Dragoons have iconic jump abilities, there are limit breaks that call meteors and Cloud's Buster Sword. The list goes on and on.

Don't tell me it's wrong to ask for my class to be a little bit more Final Fantasy when every other class gets a bunch of nods from past games.

And once again, getting better gear is not going to change anything that frustrates me or others about being a tank. Things like Shield Bash will still be on GCD, making it hard to cast it as an interrupt because the GCD is longer than enemy casting times. And all these complaints will continue to be shared by others who try to level the class and find frustration.