How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[Meshico]

@Charlemagne Martell (OP) take the advice...re-read this thread and take all the advice you want. 16 pages of stuff is more than enough...at this point if you keep denying/and not accepting the critical feedback...idk what else to tell ya.

Read your own thread, and make a decision if you are right/wrong/in the middle.

-Tari

p.s. You will meet your own requirements at some point

[Seabreeze]

Also make Shield Bash not cancel the Rage of Halone combo anymore, so I can use my stun the way I’d use it in any other MMO

They feel like a World of Warcraft character. And as a player, if I wanted a WoW melee character I’d go play WoW

Yeah... I didn't read the whole thing, but what I got out of it was basically "I wanna play as an iconic FF character and I want all of the attacks to be named as they are in other games." So, just go play the other games? ^^

[mero-ix]

I thought your suggestions were really great, actually.

I'm intimidated to play a tank class because I don't want people to yell at me, dare I mess up. A lot of the reason there's a lack of tanks is due to the large responsibility and other douchey players judging their every move.

[Xandim]

I don't have the mentality I don't need better equips.

I have the mentality that I have no control over the Duty Finder throwing me in with i90 folks and expecting me to tank for them.

I didn't design party finder to throw in item lv 50-60 folks in with i90 ones. SE did and they are the ones who have to fix the disparity problem.

And see, I'm of the vocal minority who is posting about the problem. The majority of people experiencing these issues usually just re-roll to a different class or quit the game entirely ( which tends to be easy when you can return to a max lv chara you have in whatever other MMO you also play).



That might be a good solution, too.

Actually you do, you complain that you cant hold aggro when you have crappy gear over people who have way better gear than you, than you propose changes that would make you generate more threat. Guess what? Duty Finder is meant to help people find groups with no restriction. If you want people with ilv50~60 then make a Party Finder for that. Other than that, I already gave you a partial solution for your equip problem. One roulette and 2 or 3 CT a day, in a couple of days, will net you a full darklight set, making you at least ilv70. Titan HM is nowhere as difficult as it was today (mostly because people can be waaaay overgeared for the encounter). DL is enough for you to pass Titan HM even if you gonna MT it. And then you can always join a FC (if you didnt join one yet) and ask for help with Titan.
This is all starting to sound like whining. "I cant hold aggro with my ilv50 gear from ilv90 gear, so SE needs to buff up PLD".

And maybe.... just MAYBE you are the minority because everyone else either, like you said, jump to another class, go back to their high lv in another MMO, OR they man/woman up, realize they are the ones wrong, and either go farm roulette/CT for DL gear and possibly an ilv80 piece of equipment.

I thought your suggestions were really great, actually.

I'm intimidated to play a tank class because I don't want people to yell at me, dare I mess up. A lot of the reason there's a lack of tanks is due to the large responsibility and other douchey players judging their every move.

You gotta start someday somewhere... =P
Try the low lv dungeons, to get a feel of the job and responsability. Try to go with friends and let them know that you wanna play as a tank, but might suck at it in the beginning. If you turn out to be good, your friends will be happy too, cause everyone can use a good tank. And if you turn out to be crappy at tank, at least you can say "well, at least I tried" and you can understand tank better too.

[therpgfanatic]

Actually you do, you complain that you cant hold aggro when you have crappy gear over people who have way better gear than you, than you propose changes that would make you generate more threat. Guess what? Duty Finder is meant to help people find groups with no restriction. If you want people with ilv50~60 then make a Party Finder for that. Other than that, I already gave you a partial solution for your equip problem. One roulette and 2 or 3 CT a day, in a couple of days, will net you a full darklight set, making you at least ilv70. Titan HM is nowhere as difficult as it was today (mostly because people can be waaaay overgeared for the encounter). DL is enough for you to pass Titan HM even if you gonna MT it. And then you can always join a FC (if you didnt join one yet) and ask for help with Titan.
This is all starting to sound like whining. "I cant hold aggro with my ilv50 gear from ilv90 gear, so SE needs to buff up PLD".

And maybe.... just MAYBE you are the minority because everyone else either, like you said, jump to another class, go back to their high lv in another MMO, OR they man/woman up, realize they are the ones wrong, and either go farm roulette/CT for DL gear and possibly an ilv80 piece of equipment.

You gotta start someday somewhere... =P
Try the low lv dungeons, to get a feel of the job and responsability. Try to go with friends and let them know that you wanna play as a tank, but might suck at it in the beginning. If you turn out to be good, your friends will be happy too, cause everyone can use a good tank. And if you turn out to be crappy at tank, at least you can say "well, at least I tried" and you can understand tank better too.

Again, you blaming the player for the short-comings of a system. This will not result in more people playing tanks, as my solutions would.

If a tank can enter the encounter then according to the game's design, the tank should have the item level that the encounter is designed for.

A tank should not need to run story mode constantly to jump from i50 to i70 in one go, solely because it is throwing the tank into parties with top tier geared players. Furthermore the i90 people appear in the story mode Duty Finder, too so that doesn't solve the problem at all.

And telling the tank to not use Duty Finder for the precise purpose it was created for is not a solution.

There is a problem here. It needs fixing.

I thought your suggestions were really great, actually.

I'm intimidated to play a tank class because I don't want people to yell at me, dare I mess up. A lot of the reason there's a lack of tanks is due to the large responsibility and other douchey players judging their every move.

I appreciate your post. And as you can see in this thread, there are a lot of players quick to blame the other player for issues the game design has, rather than think critically about whether the system needs improvements.

At this point I'm basically repeating myself, as more people come into the thread saying the same things and not reading the whole thread. Hopefully SE does something good with the feedback. There is a lot to love about this game and I want to see it keep getting better.

I'm at my post cap for today so I'm gonna respond to the post made below here.

So let me get this straight: there is NOTHING you can do on your own to improve your gameplay? The ONLY solution available is for Yoshi to buff up PLD because YOU want?

I didn't say to NOT use the duty finder, but if you use the DF you gotta be prepared for everything. Dont want that? Start a party for ilv50~60. Roulette bonus is only ONCE a day so no, you wont run the story dungeon constantly. Crystal Tower should be the next dungeon for progression after you get you ilv70 gear (DarkLight).
Still feel like whining to me..... Do ONE roulette, 2 crystal tower. How is that "running story mode constantly"?

Dude, how many times do I have to say it?

Yoshi wants more tanks. Tanks have a lot of frustrating aspects about them no other role has. The game needs improvements if there are going to be more players willing to play a tank, end of story.

And who the heck is gonna let a fresh 50 go do Crystal Tower? Plus it's a quest chain just to unlock it.

You keep acting as if I personally am sitting here twiddling my thumbs complaining on forums and waiting for things to change. I have Darklight gear. I have all but Titan HD done for the relic quest.

And it's not like I will forget how being a pre-50 tank and a new 50 tank was like when I am fully geared. It wont change the experience for those who come after me either.

This thread is a perfect demonstration of why most of the community doesn't want to be a tank.

[Xandim]

Again, you blaming the player for the short-comings of a system. This will not result in more people playing tanks, as my solutions would.

If a tank can enter the encounter then according to the game's design, the tank should have the item level that the encounter is designed for.

A tank should not need to run story mode constantly to jump from i50 to i70 in one go, solely because it is throwing the tank into parties with top tier geared players. Furthermore the i90 people appear in the story mode Duty Finder, too so that doesn't solve the problem at all.

And telling the tank to not use Duty Finder for the precise purpose it was created for is not a solution.

There is a problem here. It needs fixing.



I appreciate your post. And as you can see in this thread, there are a lot of players quick to blame the other player for issues the game design has, rather than think critically about whether the system needs improvements.

So let me get this straight: there is NOTHING you can do on your own to improve your gameplay? The ONLY solution available is for Yoshi to buff up PLD because YOU want?

I didn't say to NOT use the duty finder, but if you use the DF you gotta be prepared for everything. Dont want that? Start a party for ilv50~60. Roulette bonus is only ONCE a day so no, you wont run the story dungeon constantly. Crystal Tower should be the next dungeon for progression after you get you ilv70 gear (DarkLight).
Still feel like whining to me..... Do ONE roulette, 2 crystal tower. How is that "running story mode constantly"?

[BotenAnna]

The problem is tanking is fun and what it is because it is the role where you assume responsibility. The reason tanks aren't as popular is because people don't want to assume responsibility, so if you want to even out popularity in that regard you need to basically just make tank slots yet another DPS slot. This, however, would be awful for those of us that like tanking because of the responsibility, and everyone else who wants interesting encounters with more mechanics than just tank and spank. No amount of abilities named after FF6 abilities would fix that.



What they need to do is first expansion or major patch where they introduce new jobs is actually balance them correctly this time, and consider how loot drops and how that plays into incentivizing existing tanks to rerun content over and over.

People like me who like tanking and have too much free time will run extra low level dungeons if there's a reason to do it; unfortunately 750 gil and 100 trash tomes isn't enough. The loot tables have problems where tanks are guaranteed to get tank gear but nobody else is guaranteed to get stuff for their class, meaning tanks will have to run, say, Brayflox less times to get the Calvary set than a mage will have to do to get Battlemage, which compounds the existing problem of there being more DPS in the first place who are now doing more runs each than tanks.

The other problem is that of the existing classes, with an armory system that encourages people to level all or many of them, there's too many DPS compared to the other roles. 63% of the jobs pre-30 are DD, and 55% post-30 are, whereas only 50% of a party is DD. If someone were to duty finder their way to 50 on every class, even if they went scholar as soon as their arcanist was 30, they'd be a net drain on queue times overall. This is compounded by the fact that with the limited selection of healer and tank roles and the way cross class skills work, not to mention healer having to queue as DD for 1/3-1/2 of their dungeon runs in one of the roles, most tanks and healers have to queue as DPS sometimes and DPS players will over time usually level multiple DD roles and avoid tanking, healing, or both altogether.

As such, what would alleviate the problem is to introduce new classes that can tank (and heal) in higher proportion to DPS classes next expansion, along with letting low level classes that have the capacity to tank and/or heal on low level content (like Arcanist at the moment) queue as something other than DPS. It's also imperative that the upcoming hybrid role isn't a required slot and still allows for 50% of a light party to be DD unless 50% of DDs are hybrid.

In conclusion, before a pull you should Fight or Flight, shield lob, flash twice, then use the entire Rage of Halone combo on the primary target to begin a pull.

[Seabreeze]

So after reading your entire post, here are my thoughts...

Sure, my Gladiator looks really bad-ass doing his FF style attack animations but he looks bad ass while doing very little damage

You're a tank, you're not supposed to deal a lot of damage. Again, you said you worked for an MMO and you claimed to have played MMOs for over 30 years (yeah...) yet you don't seem to know anything about them.

Because hardcore MMO gamers like myself

You call yourself a hardcore gamer, and you still don't even have full Darklight or a relic by this point?

At least change the darn ability names. I believe this is a small and not time consuming tweak that would have a huge impact

"Huge impact"? No. Because nobody cares.

Furthermore the MMO battle mechanic of tanks do little damage but generate high threat is a very antiquated idea that modern MMOs no longer use because it has always resulted in less people willing to play tanks

What are you even talking about? Are you saying tanks should deal more damage than the actual damage dealers, while still being incredibly defensive? Then what is the point of having damage dealers in the first place?You keep saying "in WoW...", yet you also said "if I wanted to play WoW, I'd go play WoW".You complain about the ability Cover and want it to automatically apply on a friendly player. On my paladin I've got a macro that casts Cover on the enemy's target. So if I lose enmity on a mob, I'll just press my macro while targeting that mob, and it'll cast Cover on the player. Try it.

Move Circle of Scorn to level 30... If you make the player wait until 50 you will do nothing but discourage him from playing a Paladin at all

I don't understand your logic.

Remove global cooldown triggering from the following abilities:..

You keep saying you don't want the game to feel like other games (WoW in particular), but you also keep saying you want the game to feel like other games...

I would suggest giving Gladiators a powerful single-target attack with a x15 threat multiplier (same as spamming 3 Halones)

Because you're lazy? Seriously though, that is not needed at all.

Right now all we can do is spam a non-comboed Rage of Halone, which makes it hard to do things like pickup adds

Why would you spam a non-combo Rage of Halone..? :/

Again the reward for playing a tank is that the players gets to be a main protagonist inspired character like Cecil, Terra, Squall, Cloud, Tidus, etc

...

Remove TP cost from Sprint, the existing cooldown is sufficient for balance

Yeah, no.

Add Esuna to list of cross-class skills for Paladin... Cecil had Esuna so as a player I wonder why don’t I have it?

Because you're not Cecil... Again, you are playing Final Fantasy XIV, not one of the previous games.

We never get to limit break

Nope!

If you make Warriors and Paladins more fun to play then you will see more players selecting them as a main Job

It doesn't matter how fun the class is, tanks will ALWAYS be the least played class in any MMO, I figured you'd know that by now, having played MMOs for over 30 years and all... Anyways, I've got a lv 50 warrior, a lv 41 paladin (which I'm currently leveling) and another lv 40 paladin and I absolutely love both of the classes. From what I can read in your post, it seems like you'd much rather play a monk... (powerful attacks, shorter global cooldown, limit break etc.)

[Xandim]

@SeaBreeze

Not spam, but 2 or 3 rage of halone sometimes can secure enough aggro. For example, when the OT has to pick the ADS add before caduceus, use 2 halone and you have enough to start your combo. But other than some very specific situations, you are right, no use to spam halone un-comboed =P

[juniglee]

@SeaBreeze

Not spam, but 2 or 3 rage of halone sometimes can secure enough aggro. For example, when the OT has to pick the ADS add before caduceus, use 2 halone and you have enough to start your combo. But other than some very specific situations, you are right, no use to spam halone un-comboed =P

Is there any reason you're not using Shield Lob instead for that specific situation?

Shield Lob has 120 potency, and generates 3x enmity (4.5x with Shield Oath), according to the Valk Dancing Mad enmity tables. It also has the same GCD as Rage of Halone, on top of having the ranged bonus. Uncombo'ed Halone has 100 potency, and doesn't have the enmity bonus unless it's combo'ed.