How to make tanks more fun to play (devs please read)

[h3ll0]

it's unrealistic to expect a tank to have the same dps as a dps class. The perks of a leveling as a tank in FFXIV far outweighs their low dps. Leveling any class is not particularly fun (especially if you already have another 50 as you've gone through those contents already), unless you enjoy leveling alts. Tanks are in demand for dungeons, and having near instant queue even at low levels is far better than solo queuing as a dps. And at low levels, I would be willing to give up some dps for instant queues.

All things being equal, a tank does just fine even if he is out geared by the dps by a bit. I was tanking against relic+1 when i first turn 50 with only job quest gear. If you are having issues tanking, it is your party's job (dps and heals) to adjust to your needs. And any dps stupid enough to blame an under geared tank for failure to hold agro when they aren't doing their part just shows how bad of a player they are. IT IS THE TANKS' JOB TO BUILD THREAT, IT IS THE PARTY'S JOB TO KEEP BELOW THE TANKS THREAT.

That said, low lvl tanking is harder than endgame tanking as far as threat is concerned. But i was under the impression they help it a lot(?) by increasing the threat generated by flash.

Now on to tank dps, I see no real issue with it. Asking for more dps is like the other dps class asking for some tanking buffs too so they can be viable as OT encase the party can't fine a real tank. AND I don't see how making bigger numbers pop out is somehow going to make tanking more fun? Making tanks "more fun" is an issue with game mechanics and boss design, NOT an issue with the class's lack of muti function. Do I think the PLD (i don't play war) can use some improvements? YES. we've got 1 good combo rotation, and 1 pathetic damage rotation that is kind of pointless and does less damage than the threat rotation (unless i'm doing it wrong, in which case, someone please correct me) >.> But as far as Tanks being boring, I think tanking just requires a certain kind of personality to play it long term.
It's hard to be a tank without being a bit arrogant. OT maybe, but if you're tanking, generally you are leading (unless you're in a fc party and there's another leader). Proper tank SETS the pace of the run. ie: in dungeons, i progressively pull faster and faster until the dps is barely keeping up, then i tone it back a slight bit and that's the pace I go for that group. If i notice the healer is very good, i don't bother waiting for mp or buffs on bosses. Some tanking spots are more favorable for melee but bad for your camera angle. More often than not, DPS are not smart enough to think about where to dps from (I don't know why.....but i attribute to the fact that ALL dps have their brains turned off) ie: AK wall boss, I grab adds and sit on the left side while we burn the boss, instead of dps'ing on the right side away from me, dps just has to sit there with me "trying" to dodge the add aoes....i mean...really?

A good tank will make EVERYONE'S jobs easier, but no one will notice it except the tank. NO healer ever really notices when the tank pops their CD's because he notices other people taking damage and gives the healer a bit of a buffer to heal others. When i'm healing, I don't even notice them making my job easier when i'm focus healing. I don't think any melee dps ever notices how I take the effort to position all the mobs facing the same direction so they don't have to run to the other side for positional skills. And I'm fairly certain the healer never really notices when i slow down the pace so they can regen their mp without stopping so that by the time we reach the boss, they are almost full again. Or that all mobs are marked before we even get close enough to pull w/o slowing/stopping to mark. Or that on bosses where I can, I position bosses in locations that allows me to help dps adds even if i'm not suppose to pick up the adds because they don't have an agro table. Or that I interrupt most of the aoes targeted at melees, casters and healers, but never really for BRD's (they can shoot and run), or that I'm almost always able to instantly grab unintended agros when the other accidentally agro mobs we're skipping because I keep my camera flipped when running just incase someone pulls by accident. Or how the dps that's attacking the wrong target never pulls agro because i'm keeping an eye on it.

BUT! God forbid I step out of a red circle too late, or took too long positioning the boss just perfect, or the boss lands a series of unlucky crits, or missed a hit and lose agro for a sec.

So, why does no one want to play a tank? Because a tank is one of those classes where EVERY mistake you make is amplified and probably lead to a group wipe which mean EVERYONE will conclude that you are a bad tank. And when you do a very good job, no one will notice it. EVERYTHING is the tanks fault. I once got blamed in Titan HM for a dps's failure to dodge landslides. Apparently he's complaining that MY job (tank) being easier than his somehow leads to him being unable to dodge, and some of the other dps agrees..... I've also had healers blame me because they could not keep up with heals for sudden spike damages. Have you ever heard a dps getting blame for their inability to dodge Eruptions in Ifrit HM? Nope, it is always the tanks fault for failing 1 stun out of what? 30? and never the other players fault for their inability to dodge.

Tanking, it's a stressfully unappreciated job, and it's not for everyone.



... Oh yea...and you can't really move around, that's why people find it boring......it's not a class for kids and/or folks who have a hard time standing still for long periods of time.......lol.
The "boring" tank is mostly a boss mechanic issue, not necessary a class issue.

TL;DR Tanking is sooo stressful my hair turned white!! ......poor Broken ='(

[Roris]

I'll admit I hated Paladin in the old version because of how slow leveling it was but at least by 1.23 it was more involved or at least had more interesting abilities going on than the single combo 2 win off GCD abilities and cooldowns when they're up and you're dying ez mode thing it became, it had more reactive abilities and actual self healing and even neat stuff like Divine Regen, it really got simplified a lot. Always preferred Warrior since back then and I'd say it's even more fun now with more interesting abilities and mechanics at least in comparison to PLD and more than 1 combo, it even has a branching combo, though I still miss the old Steel Cyclone. Of course some people will throw out fun in favor of "it gets the job done" and current Paladin is right up to their alley.

[Marxam]

First of all tanking takes a special breed of people to be able to consider it "fun". For me I like high hp and high defense. High attack is a bonus which is why I main a War. All I can say is that there is not enough of a difference between the two current tanks. I think SE missed an opportunity for both pld and war jobs. The pld needs to have access to to raise (in battle) and cure II. The war needs more drain skills or at least more offensive cd's to get the dps interested in running a tank.

As for low dps of tanks, well... no shit they have low dps. They're TANKS! People who say that tanks lack dps and aren't fun because of it are wasting their breath. The real gripe with why people think tanks are no fun is because of the added pressure and responsibility of keeping yourself/party safe. There is a thread on this in the Tank Section and I would say the consensus is clear.

[Pr0c3ss0r]

The real gripe with why people think tanks are no fun is because of the added pressure and responsibility of keeping yourself/party safe.

But yet, holding hate and mitigate some dmg is they only ability. They are often first blamed for everything, like h3ll0 said:

IT IS THE TANKS' JOB TO BUILD THREAT, IT IS THE PARTY'S JOB TO KEEP BELOW THE TANKS THREAT.

They have no healing power, so that part is unquestionable. It build stress quick when you can't help it and still get blamed for other mistake. Is really main reason no one want play Tank job.

like you said:

The pld needs to have access to to raise (in battle) and cure II. The war needs more drain skills or at least more offensive cd's to get the dps interested in running a tank.

And i agree there, too bad, many in this thread seem butthurted about this idea, in that case Tank job will remain the top unwanted job forever. Don't get me wrong, i still love enough my PLD and WAR to play it with friend, but not with pug... No thanks, done with that part.

[XNihili]

They have no healing power, so that part is unquestionable. It build stress quick when you can't help it and still get blamed for other mistake. Is really main reason no one want play Tank job.

When soloing, Warrior do have healing power, they are almost unkillable by a bunch of wild trash mob while DPS don't have much choice but to flee for their life when their HP is low. And a good Stoneskin is like 10% HP heal.
If Tank did have enough healing power to not need a healer, why would anyone invite healer ?

[Tears-of-Death]

Playing a tank on fights where your skill is obvious is a reward in and of itself. Tanking coil turn 5 as a warrior especially as the MT without dying and using your skills to survive hits that most paladins struggle with is fun enough.

I never played a healer until one month ago in this game and healed twin with less than 25 hours of experience as a healer and never seeing beyond twisters as a dps last year.

Real gamers don't care about the class giving big numbers of damage, they take pride in their ability to focus and work as a team to defeat content with insurmountable odds.

People complain about titan ex mode, I say Heigan 1.0 which I found a lot harder. Different games but scripted mechanics that are easy to avoid if you know the fight.

Tanks are fine.

[AlrikRouge]

To the OP - good read. I myself have never played an MMO before (I skipped 11, and tried one other one for about a week or two and didn't like it), but started this one because it is in the Final Fantasy genre. I appreciate the suggestions made. I personally use PLD as my main, and I have a somewhat unique feeling because I can tank pretty good, and tanks are always in high demand (for the most part; look at near-instant que-up in DF as an example).

In general, to the others, the title of this thread and the general purpose of making the thread was to clearly state that making a specific mount for tanks, will not be an incentive for more players to have a tank as their main character.

Regardless of the thought process, information, data or knowledge given in the post, the basis of the thread and post stay the same - it is a personal suggestion derived from personal experience to possibly change things within the game to try and make being a tank more interesting and more fun in general, and therefore have a chance, no matter how remote, to entice more players into tanking as a main character.

There are already tons of threads that have gone from one subject matter into [learn how to play a tank; WAR is better than PLD or PLD is better than WAR or PLD and WAR are same or or or].

So jumping back on to topic of this thread (unless, OP, I am clearly misunderstanding why you even took the time and effort to making the point), I agree that something could be changed for the tank role in order to make it more enticing, and "have a specific mount" won't really cut it. Maybe it will make people level a tank, but I don't see it making people want to play a tank.

[silentwindfr]

i just did read something amazing, tank must be boring... and ask a lot of skill at higher level... exept a couple of fight... most of the time... you have nothing to do exept crack a cd for help the healer and spam the same combo (and we talk of the paladin, warrior is not as boring).
we don't talk to move all the time or have big number... but to have something to do instead of 1, 2, 3, 1, 2, 3... silence can often be done by monk and bard, stun are barely used passed a cap.
and you have fight like cadeus, titan hm where you have nothing to do exept crack cd and do your borish combo 1,2,3,1,2,3.... over and over and over.
and that the core problem of the tank, they are easy to play and seriously we are not different of titan-egi actually. people can tell you, place yourself there and don't move, spam your 1,2,3,1,2,3.... no special mechanic... nothing special... it's a boring tanking at the level 0 of the fun.

i do have WAR and PLD to 50 and if i had to note them in term of enterntainement the paladin will get a good 1 on 10 when the war will reach a good 3 on 10. they need to add more fun to the gameplay... more unique feature! because if you look at this... paladin have nothing. him healing capacity are ridiculous, him only shining point is the fact he did take less damage than warrior... that all. it not enough. give us something to do while tanking! give us fun!

ps: just saying i play mmorpg for age (more of 18 years now) and most of the time i did play tank... even while the beta i mostly play paladin and warrior... i'm sorry but soo far the tanking in ff14 arr is the worst tanking i did see!

[Brevitic]

[Pr0c3ss0r]

more unique feature! because if you look at this... paladin have nothing. him healing capacity are ridiculous

FFF11, PLD had Cure IV, it was not 'ridiculous'.