How to make gear progression non-linear

[Edellis]

1) Give top Gear (i50+) 1-2 materia slots. Give vanity and dropped weapons (Zantetsuken, HM Primal) weapons varied between 3~4 slots. (or just on average more than normal drops)

2) Have i70+ dungeons drop specific rare materia that provide special skill boosts and add effects to the weapon. (+100 skill speed, Vampire damage, job skill boosts, ect) These materia are treated as loot in a dungeon, you roll and need on them based on class.

3) Do not allow the special materia to provide raw damage boosts. +20 Strength is a no-no -- that is linear progression.

3) Make melding these high-end materia 100% with no failure rates, with the ability to remove them intact. (Or rather, allow them to fail based on crafter stats, but do not allow them to break. This could help create a DoH market, except without discouraging using the system.)

4) Put some of the materia in the shop for the price of tomes to keep with the current progression model



-KABOOOOM endgame progression is no longer linear, dungeon runs now have purpose, there are multiple ways to gear the same character, there's a alot more to aspire to endgame, Materia is no longer useless, lv50 crafting jobs are no longer (completely) useless.


-Higher ilvl weapons still provide overall greater DPS boost, but the extra slots on non-optimal gear allow players with access to higher materia the ability to potentially make them useful in niche situations due to having more slots.



Essentially, this encourages the same progression the game has now (dungeon drops and myth tomes) except with an added layer that keeps old content relevant by allowing it to feed off content released later.


Best of all, the only thing it really requires are systems that already exist in the game now.

[Moheeheeko]

I agree that more gear needs slots. The one Issue I can come up with is that crafters will charge through the nose for it (because they can) and then the forums will be flooded with complainers about not having enough gil or calling crafters greedy.

Beyond that I agree this system would work great.

[Sigred]

The main problem with non-linear progression? It's infinitely harder to balance. I like having options and cool effects just as much as the next person, but they always trend towards horribly lop-sided class balances.

[Xellos2099]

People call this a case power creep. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx...apZ-rvp0cODHhm

[Lakshmana]

People call this a case power creep. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx...apZ-rvp0cODHhm

QFT
This about 1 billion times.

-Lak

[Renik]

It's a good idea, but ppl will always complain about everything.

Regarding the balance of the game,this is a game and they are developers, it's their job, fearing balancing issues will always limit our fun.

Also, the real power creep comes with linear gear progression, in any case, horizontal gear progression would avoid power creep.

[PlanckZero]

What they need to do is drop two things. First is the inability to swap armor while engaged in battle. Second is add more god damn stats to the game.

People hate to hear it but this game needs to be more like XI. When new content came out for XI the devs weren't scrambling to release gear that surpassed previous releases because they were able to release gear of equivalent strength based on unique combinations of the games far more numerous stats that suited different play styles or situations.

When a new patch comes out I shouldn't be thinking "Well I haven't finished this content yet... but screw it because that gear is iXX and this new stuff is iXX+10 so what's the point?" I should be thinking is "Well I haven't finished this content yet... but even though the new gear is great for doing this stuff the old gear is still great for doing that stuff so I guess I'll go after both now!"

[Edellis]

Kerbump

People call this a case power creep. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bxszx...apZ-rvp0cODHhm

I find it hilarious how I can feel when people are about to link to an Extra Credits video. Not that it's bad or anything.

This actually isn't a case of power creep though because newer content isn't going to ruin the balancing of the game, it's just going to render old content no longer optimal. Which is pretty much how it's supposed to be.

The only thing non-linear gear progression really adds though is a ton of replay value and alternate playstyles.

What they need to do is drop two things. First is the inability to swap armor while engaged in battle. Second is add more god damn stats to the game.

I agree with both of these...sort of. They should definitely allow you to swap armors/weapons during battle with a short cool-down penalty.

The game has plenty of stats though, it just doesn't use any of them. We have the basic few which influence every stat except TP, Elemental resistance support, and even Physical Resistances (Blunt/Edge/Piercing from Vagrant Story). This gives them more than enough leeway to significantly boost the "RPG" factor of this game whenever they feel they need to.

There is plenty of room for Square allowing these to become useful in the future. They just have to find a good time to introduce the concept that isn't too late, since 1-49 doesn't use them at all.

The main problem with non-linear progression? It's infinitely harder to balance. I like having options and cool effects just as much as the next person, but they always trend towards horribly lop-sided class balances.

True, but Honestly? I don't see this being a problem for Square. Balancing was never really a weakpoint for them.

Weapons themselves are already pretty streamlined for balance sake. Adding special traits into the mix should be simple enough to balance. This is why I suggested the higher-tier items should have a limited amount of Materia slots in order to cut back on power creep in the future.

Not like it really matters though. If there is no level syncing on any level 50 content, the next patch is going to render the duties even easier then they are for current i90s.

[lackofwords]

This actually isn't a case of power creep though because newer content isn't going to ruin the balancing of the game, it's just going to render old content no longer optimal. Which is pretty much how it's supposed to be.

The only thing non-linear gear progression really adds though is a ton of replay value and alternate playstyles.

Isn't that essentially power creeping for mmo? Rendering old content (in this case gear) obsolete...
Also isn't mmo suppose supply a ton of replay value?...

You could argue that the ilvl ranges are stepping stones to the next set, but even then there aren't that many steps to take. Random rewarded gear -> AF set -> DF set -> choice of ilvl 90 items unless if you want to play the other fights.
*edit: They are adding or hinting at crafted gear for patch 2.2 will be better than dropped gear, which would essentially be what you're suggesting. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-2.2-confirmed
As for replay value, there are people who would only finish the main story and end the game there, but there will also be people who wants to play the game as a different role or different build.

Making materia drop in dungeons or purchased via tomes would surely increase the supply and demand of rare materia, and also increase the grind on those same dungeons.
I'm not sure about you, but I'm already sick of the running the dungeons, trials, and guildhest for tomes.

Even the just novelty of learning new boss fight patterns and mechanics is not overcoming the repetitiveness of skill rotation for me.
Playing a new class makes the player learn a new role, as well as a new class skill rotation they would have to use, which in turns adds to replay value in the end.
However, for me what was a breath of fresh air was the addition of PvP, which also introduced new abilities. The combat there forced me to think of new ways to approach new situations.

As it is now, gear only adds a boost or multiplier to your output, but does not change the way you approach your fights.
Gear swapping would add an additional micro action the player needs to keep track of, but at the core functionally of it would serve the same purpose of abilities and skills.
E.G. Cleric Stance, swaps MND and INT, and is not affected by GCD.
Why just add new abilities instead of the cumbersome load of holding multiple gear sets around?
Could make trials to drop random scrolls that teaches new skills, and limited how many you can equip at once. Save everyone the hassle of an inventory nightmare again, while still providing the player with option to micro-manage battle stances or whatever non-sense that comes along with gear swapping.

[Edellis]

Isn't that essentially power creeping for mmo? Rendering old content (in this case gear) obsolete...
Also isn't mmo suppose supply a ton of replay value?...

Well, FFXIV is a game that's all about forward progression and really doesn't do much to stop you from obtaining powerful gear by simply playing the game. A good bit of the other content has to do with completing difficult boss fights, and to do so requires being geared sufficently enough to first accept the duty and then survive it.

As it is now, gear only adds a boost or multiplier to your output, but does not change the way you approach your fights....

Why just add new abilities instead of the cumbersome load of holding multiple gear sets around?
Could make trials to drop random scrolls that teaches new skills, and limited how many you can equip at once. Save everyone the hassle of an inventory nightmare again, while still providing the player with option to micro-manage battle stances or whatever non-sense that comes along with gear swapping.

I agree, which is why I suggested Materia be the culprit in creating endgame content that doesn't powercreep itself. I was mostly just thinking of how FF7 handled Materia, but there's really no reason why it shouldn't be similar in XIV because it's an MMO.

There's really no reason to create new skills when you can just create equippable items that alter the functionality of your current ones enough to make them feel like new abilities altogether. If endgame Materia functioned that way, it would essentially equate to every new drop becoming a new skill for your character, or a possible alteration to your rotation. The only MMO i've ever played that successfully implemented this concept was Phantasy Star Online ep1&2...and it is literally the only one. (Even the sequels to the franchise failed at it.)

An even more interesting application for Materia that enhanced abilities would be Cross-Class abilities. There are plenty of abilities that are cross-class though completely useless on jobs because they lack a combo ability or are eclipsed by your natural skills. This type of system could open up all sorts of possibilities concerning that.



I don't really know what to call it. I use the term "emergent gameplay design", or "non-linear design". Horizontal/vertical progression sounds more like what we're already doing, which is A > B > C