My friend the "content locust" :(

[Edellis]

This is the fundamental problem with the 'WoW' model of these games. If the player base has to try to find stuff to make the game less boring, then imo the game has failed at its core.

This is the problem with MMO gamers, who believe that an MMO is some ~*~magical activity~*~ where you do the same thing every day, every month, continuously, for thousands of hours on end, yet is supposed to stay interesting and never get dull, or else it's "bad game design". The game has plenty of content. It has plenty of endgame content too. You've just gotten bored with it. Cancel your subscription and wait for them to add more.


/thread. This isn't a "CURRENT ISSUE IN MMOS", it's literally common sense that development teams aren't global mind readers, and a game's capacity to hold your attention isn't infinite. And the WoW model is probably the furthest thing from a "fundemental problem" any sane person or critic can think of. The fact that many of you have multiple lv50 classes and have been playing since 1.0 are proof that the game is addictive and is succeeding quite spectacularly at its goal.


People complain about how Casual gamers ruin gaming, but i'd venture to say the equally terrible end of that argument is the unrealistically entitled Hardcore gamer who believes everything should take 20 years to accomplish with fun you have to dig for by design. You'd think years of terrible Korean MMOs would have broken us out of that idea, but instead it just seems to create a cancerous niche that just wont go away...


FFXIV ARR is indeed a roller coaster --> you pay for fun, and you get fun, until it isn't fun anymore. The endgame content in this game is not easy, it just isn't impossible. Your sharply honed standards for what is considered "Hard" or "Fun" for an MMO have been conditioned so hard that you can only enjoy a certain type of it.

So you need to understand, that you're the minority. That's why this game is so successful.

[chococo]

/thread. This isn't a "CURRENT ISSUE IN MMOS", it's literally common sense that development teams aren't global mind readers, and a game's capacity to hold your attention isn't infinite. And the WoW model is probably the furthest thing from a "fundemental problem" any sane person or critic can think of. The fact that many of you have multiple lv50 classes and have been playing since 1.0 are proof that the game is addictive and is succeeding quite spectacularly at its goal.

This isn't quite the case I'm afraid. People that did carry on playing in 1.0 are probably those that look to the future of FFXIV, hoping that one day it becomes a much better game than at release. Kinda like what OP said, people did stuff to prepare themselves for when FFXIV becomes a better game; leveling up classes, gather more gil, stock up on materials prior to 2.0. I had a discussion with a friend during 1.0 why we moved on to XIV rather than staying in XI. It was because XIV had potential compared to a 11 year old game that will have to be phased out eventually.

The game had gotten much better by the end of 1.23, and 2.0 was supposed to be an extension and improvement of what we already had in 1.23. People had their hopes up high. But then bam!, we get a simplified FPS wrapped in MMO skin. Totally different nature. People aren't gonna "prep" themselves again for a second time and "hope" that the game becomes better. Simply put, they lost their hope.

I would retract that statement my friend and I agreed on in 1.0.

[Imapooonu]

EDIT: Poo, please don't flag me, I started composing this before your most recent update and there are some good points here that may be relevant to the original discussion. /grovel

No worries mate. I didn't flag anyone. It just needed to be said again because this:

“There is partial responsibility inferred to the topic creator/original poster to direct the discussion of the thread they create in a manner conducive with regards to the main idea of their post.”

And again forum, stating your opinions to help justify a point of view is fine. It is almost humanly impossible to be on topic all the time. I care about what I post, and the points of views people share with me when engaging.

However, any “chest thumping” “you’re wrong and stupid” or “Only an idiot xyz” conversations will be flagged. The thread has not gone down that path again yet, but it seemed likely. Hence my preemptive warning.

It’s really the only reason I said please and thank you. And again…
THANK YOU ALL FOR CONTRIBUTING!!!

......................................................................

EDIT

I take it back, I just flagged two. They'll get to them (not yours only the comments deemed harassment worthy)

[Susanoh]

What would you classify as "meaningful content"? And how can you be any kind of certain that if your description existed you wouldn't have already exhausted it and be complaining about something else?

Well, just for example, if the open world had more difficult enemies and a reason to take them on like valuable items for crafting, pop items for even more challenging enemies, etc. more people might be out in the open world fighting them and leveling their chocobos. If gathering items were a bit more scarce and possibly somewhat dangerous to acquire, and they were used in items that were desirable alternatives for the majority of players, it might help rejuvenate interest in crafting/gathering jobs and the markets as a whole, because as it stands almost everything is overly abundant and not very desirable and it shows on the markets when nearly everything has hit rock bottom prices. If every piece of content wasn't designed to throw some equipment at you that gets obsoleted linearly by the very next piece of content you're meant to do, more people might want to stick around and experience most of what the game has to offer.

As it stands now, most content in the game isn't meant to be challenging. People aren't going to bother capping company seals to buy equipment that becomes obsolete in a mere few hours of button mashing in FATEs. People aren't going to care if their chocobo is leveled if instanced content is the only content being taken seriously by the developers for high level play and you can run around the highest level areas in the game and solo multiple mobs in seconds. People who care about the state of crafting, gathering, and the markets are going to find the current situation a bit mundane because there's very little in the way of valuable items that people actually want to buy. Everything is handed to you up to a certain point and they you hit a wall where you either create goals for yourself or you stop playing, and for many this point comes pretty quickly in this game.

For your other question, I have no idea whether this person would be complaining or not if more options were there, but whether they'd be complaining or not, I still find it to be a valid point that there aren't a whole lot of meaningful things to actually log in and do currently.

[Clavaat]

Hmmmmm. Well I am a Legacy Player, granted only near the end, long enough to earn the status. I never feel like I am out of content, until Sunday really. That being said, I do work 40hrs a week, and take some nights off for RL commitments. I like the pacing of the game currently, as I'm able to feel like I accomplished something in a given week but still have time to do other things.

I also find enjoyment in things that are not necessarily considered typical "progression". Treasure Hunts are amazingly fun, you always seem to meet nice people, visit parts of the world you wouldn't normally go, and often earn a good bit of gil. Our FC recently bought a house and are enjoying that aspect a lot. Crafting could use a buff, though I enjoy cooking immensely as I use it to help out my FC mates save some money. Cooking involves farming materials, which I also enjoy, as it is fairly competitive and you get to kill large amounts of enemies. This is a week-to-week basis as I always require materials for BC food.

I also haven't found a job I truly do not like. I have relics on all of my 50's and I get equal use out of all of them. Even if I don't necessarily bring them to coil, I find other uses such as daily beast quests, roulette, treasure hunt etc. It's exciting to see the improvements across the board, it makes you feel versatile and keeps things in a fresh perspective.

This is not how everyone plays, I understand, but if you are finding yourself discouraged, give it a shot and see what you think. If it's still not for you, I'd recommend another game.

[kukurumei]

To be fair, this is 2.1 aka first update from 2.2 We really don't know the final rate of contest upkeep the team will layout.

Hiring more team members, changing development goals, and expansion freezes are all things that take awhile to turn around.

You can't say their views are wrong if they keep a 2~2.5month content refresh that wow did, nor can you say making harder content but extending releases is right, etc.

There is a lot to factor in, and it is still somewhat early to tell.

If they can keep a 2~2.5month major content refresh, it is sustainable, as there are always a few burn outs, but a majority will stick around.

They have been making due with seasonal events to fill the time, which is a start, but it really hard to say at this point, since we need to know what the team's target goals are.

One thing is for sure with all the profit they got in, they better be hiring to fill the gap that 2.0 era bad taste left

[TrystWildkey]

To be fair, this is 2.1 aka first update from 2.2 We really don't know the final rate of contest upkeep the team will layout.

There is a lot to factor in, and it is still somewhat early to tell.

If they can keep a 2~2.5month major content refresh, it is sustainable...

...but it really hard to say at this point, since we need to know what the team's target goals are.

I almost agree with you. But only almost. It is early in the game's lifecycle, and they do plan to keep up with the 3 month schedule for updates.

However, by this time, we are able to see the foundation upon which each update will be built.

I'm one of the people that has no problem with the amount of content. There is a crap-ton of stuff I haven't done yet.

My dissatisfaction comes from the typeof content, not the amount. Even though it is early in the game's lifecycle, we have enough information from the current game, and from what they've released regarding their future plans, to understand the basis of all future content.

The basis of all future content (so far, at least) appears to be an ever increasing item level. Vertical only.

For people who manage to play at just the right pace, (completing the new content just before the next major patch date) this game is fantastic!

For people who play at a faster pace, they've run out of new things to do before the next patch and get bored. (understandable)

For people who play at a slower pace, their viewpoint varies.
They could be pleased that they'll eventually get where they need to go, since older content will get the echo buff.
Or, like me, it's a 'why bother' attitude. I can either grind out the dungeon runs now, and have completely useless gear in just a couple of weeks, or I can take the easy way out, wait for the echo buff and get my gear later.

There's no challenge for me. I could even just log in for a half hour each day, completely bypass dungeons, do beastmen dailies, and eventually get all myth gear. Wow, fun ><

In addition to the vertical only gear, with very simplistic stats, we know that all of the battle content relies on memorizing the mob's pattern, and memorizing your own pattern for each fight. Now, I'm not saying that this in itself is a bad/wrong decision. It's just not to my taste. FFXI, XIV 1.0 and XIV 1.23 (which are the only MMO's I really spent any time playing) did not rely upon pattern recognition and creation as heavily and exactly as 2.0 does.

To top it all off, because of these 2 aspects of the game's foundation, we can extrapolate that any future classes/jobs will not really deviate from what we already have. All will have a single set of Best in Slot gear, and all will have a single effective skill rotation. They might appear different, but, depending on where you place your skills on the hotbar, you could theoretically play each job by pressing the same exact buttons in the same exact rotation for each encounter.

EDIT: Poo, please don't flag me, I started composing this before your most recent update and there are some good points here that may be relevant to the original discussion. /grovel

[kukurumei]

I almost agree with you. But only almost. It is early in the game's lifecycle, and they do plan to keep up with the 3 month schedule for updates.

From all interviews they wanted a 2~2.5month cycle. This may or may not have changed

12/14 is 2.1
we are 2/14

so we are on 2 months right now. Given the new years is a traditional slow down. It's entirely too early to see their designated goals.

What's in the content does matter, but not as much as you think. There is always a consumption of "any" content. No matter what. That's what make the WoW model such a surprise.

They can have an intern design something half baked, and people would still do it to past the time, and call it good.

There needs to be a mixture here.

And more needs to be said for "movie" content like hildibrand, that offers nothing but story and humor. Yet people will keep their subs just to wait for the next episode.

In terms of programing effort for hildibrand. It is a matter of days with a few interns, and very good story board employees directing it. (Basically just on those alone, they can stuff into any update and people will be fine with it)

[Yurimi]

I couldn't be bothered reading through 14 pages of posts so I am going to keep based on what I have read.


I come from FFXI, a game where content grew with each patch and expansion where sidegrades were the norm and there was always that one item to improve your set... have an Optical Hat for your evasion set thats nice but if you want to really make a good evasion set you need to go camp a Lv. 24 Hairpin for that extra 3 AGI yes a low level item was better than a higher level one even if only slightly.

The ammount of content grew over the years you were not stuck doing the same thing with artifical locks on everything making it impossible to progress your character... hey you did dynamis and its a 3 day lockout thats ok limbus is a 3 day lockout too thats the next night both of those done how about einherjar hey look you now have events 6 nights a week that are on lockouts. The kicker is these events were released YEARS apart but still relevant. and if you werent doing events you could go do small stuff like salvage or nyzul. You could go do big stuff like sky sea HNM's or go camp regular NM's to get that drop you want. the reason there was so much content in XI was because stuff didnt get outdated so (until abyssea and the level cap increases that saw waves of payers leave the game and SoA which made the game pretty much a ladder grind) you always had something to do something to better yourself and over the years what you could do grew it wasnt tossed aside and left to be empty worthless stuff that you will only do once because you HAVE to do it.

Does this game have content... yes.. it has a lot of filler content that I find zero point in doing because I finished gearing my healers and I dont enjoy other classes. I play a game to have fun but I find myself simply logging into MSN: ARR edition because now its simply get that better iLv. item which I can only do 1 day a week. I am used to having a myriad of content placed before me ala FFXI pre abyssea. Sadly all I have here is empty content that leaves me feeling less and less inclined to do anything. I have hope this game could go somewhere but I have zero hope that it will go somewhere if it continues to keep dropping old content so that all you have to do for 3 months is what was just released.

EDIT(1) Its actually gotten to the point I have picked WoW back up again just to use as filler and honestly when you are playing another game just because 1 doesnt offer you enough to last more than 1-2 days a week I find something wrong there.

EDIT(2) I should point out that I work full time and then some and I also have a life outside this game both social and not game related (I tend to go through at least 2 books a week) so this is generally all done in the course of about two 3-5hr play sessions each week outside of just chatting with a couple friends (and anyone on leviathan who frequents gridania has probably seen me almost always sitting in the same spot doing a whole lot of nothing though recently I changed spots)

[Edellis]

I come from FFXI, a game where content grew with each patch and expansion where sidegrades were the norm and there was always that one item to improve your set... have an Optical Hat for your evasion set thats nice but if you want to really make a good evasion set you need to go camp a Lv. 24 Hairpin for that extra 3 AGI yes a low level item was better than a higher level one even if only slightly.

While I do think FFXIV would benefit greatly from non-linear gear progression, camping enemies for hours/days/weeks on end just for a specific drop is something I will never be able to stomach again as an individual. I'll take tome leveling and lockouts any day of the year over 0.0042% drop rates. It's a necessary evil, in my opinion. Older generation MMOs are built around carrot sticking. The only reason I actually play FFXIV is because it seems to abandon this concept.



The problem you guys seem to have is that FFXIV is all about forward progress but doesn't do much in the realm of incentive for backpeddling. Sort of like an offline Final Fantasy title. That's simply a design choice that I really don't think is going to change. It has its pros and cons, just like the opposite design model. But forward progress is infinitely more appealing to non-mmo veterans and (most importantly) Final Fantasy fans.


The ONLY reason im capped in this game is because FFXIV never threw excessive EXP requirements or drop rates in my face in order to hinder my progression. Even at level 50, at the end of its content pool, it refuses to hinder progression with typical MMO tactics. Every dungeon you complete gives forward progress with Tomes that eventually will end in i90 gear. Even when you get no drops from a dungeon, you're still technically gaining gear.

That's just how FFXIV operates, and people enjoy it. It's a pace change that I personally can get behind. At least I know when im bored with the game, it'll be on my own terms, instead of frustration that eventually just makes me feel like i wasted my life because the 534,102 kills it took for Ultima Weapon +1 to drop from the rare golden dragon that spawns at random every 2 hours that the whole server camps really wasn't worth it afterall.