My friend the "content locust" :(

[Zezlar]

While I can see why people would be frustrated that they've completed the existing content many times over, that is still unique to those people, regardless of how many there are. The game is not just aimed at people who can play for many hours every single day, but also at people who only have an hour or two per day, or even only a few days a week, to play, but still want to accomplish things. Now, I'm not saying that means SE shouldn't introduce more content for the people who DO have the time, but I'm honestly pretty surprised that people expect the devs to simply pull content out of their backsides. Introducing a few new dungeons each patch is actually pretty awesome, and they're also adding mini events to keep players interested. If that doesn't interest the people who are frustrated, that's simply too bad. Devs can't please everyone, right?

Do you not see the problem then?

[Edellis]

I come from FFXI, a game where content grew with each patch and expansion where sidegrades were the norm and there was always that one item to improve your set... have an Optical Hat for your evasion set thats nice but if you want to really make a good evasion set you need to go camp a Lv. 24 Hairpin for that extra 3 AGI yes a low level item was better than a higher level one even if only slightly.

While I do think FFXIV would benefit greatly from non-linear gear progression, camping enemies for hours/days/weeks on end just for a specific drop is something I will never be able to stomach again as an individual. I'll take tome leveling and lockouts any day of the year over 0.0042% drop rates. It's a necessary evil, in my opinion. Older generation MMOs are built around carrot sticking. The only reason I actually play FFXIV is because it seems to abandon this concept.



The problem you guys seem to have is that FFXIV is all about forward progress but doesn't do much in the realm of incentive for backpeddling. Sort of like an offline Final Fantasy title. That's simply a design choice that I really don't think is going to change. It has its pros and cons, just like the opposite design model. But forward progress is infinitely more appealing to non-mmo veterans and (most importantly) Final Fantasy fans.


The ONLY reason im capped in this game is because FFXIV never threw excessive EXP requirements or drop rates in my face in order to hinder my progression. Even at level 50, at the end of its content pool, it refuses to hinder progression with typical MMO tactics. Every dungeon you complete gives forward progress with Tomes that eventually will end in i90 gear. Even when you get no drops from a dungeon, you're still technically gaining gear.

That's just how FFXIV operates, and people enjoy it. It's a pace change that I personally can get behind. At least I know when im bored with the game, it'll be on my own terms, instead of frustration that eventually just makes me feel like i wasted my life because the 534,102 kills it took for Ultima Weapon +1 to drop from the rare golden dragon that spawns at random every 2 hours that the whole server camps really wasn't worth it afterall.

[Yurimi]

While I do think FFXIV would benefit greatly from non-linear gear progression, camping enemies for hours/days/weeks on end just for a specific drop is something I will never be able to stomach again as an individual. I'll take tome leveling and lockouts any day of the year over 0.0042% drop rates. It's a necessary evil, in my opinion. Older generation MMOs are built around carrot sticking. The only reason I actually play FFXIV is because it seems to abandon this concept.



The problem you guys seem to have is that FFXIV is all about forward progress but doesn't do much in the realm of incentive for backpeddling. Sort of like an offline Final Fantasy title. That's simply a design choice that I really don't think is going to change. It has its pros and cons, just like the opposite design model. But forward progress is infinitely more appealing to non-mmo veterans and (most importantly) Final Fantasy fans.


The ONLY reason im capped in this game is because FFXIV never threw excessive EXP requirements or drop rates in my face in order to hinder my progression. Even at level 50, at the end of its content pool, it refuses to hinder progression with typical MMO tactics. Every dungeon you complete gives forward progress with Tomes that eventually will end in i90 gear.


That's just how FFXIV operates, and people enjoy it. It's a pace change that I personally can get behind. At least I know when im bored with the game, it'll be on my own terms, instead of frustration that eventually just makes me feel like i wasted my life.

But you didnt have to camp the NM using my example optical hat could be obtained the difference in evasion was 3 agility both had the same base evasion bonus it was simply a question of if you were WILLING to camp the NM for that slight bonus. Yes there were some exceptions when it came to stuff like HNM gear but even then with the introduction of einherjar and nyzul and salvage gear that stuff kind of degraded too. You were now given options. Even in this game you get tomes for i90 but is it BiS is it the absolute min/max for your character probably not if you showed up using Myth hands over coil hands on scholar thats not the best but you are satisfied doing so because its progress right ? you didnt have to camp valkurm emperor for the hairpin you could simple grind gil and buy it you could do the BCNM for the sellable one you could camp the NM or settle for the 100% drop rate of the optical hat. you had choice. And the variety of available content to obtain "good" gear from was a rather large pool vs the current if you arent doing the latest stuff your wasting time model of XIV:ARR.

[Akiza]

Specifically, you do not seem to understand the difference. Horizonal progression is not about adding abilities and skill points; that is vertical progression as well.

Horizontal Progression
Use a skill-based, horizontal progression system rather than a level-based, gear grind system. Give us a huge pool of options and gear to buy, but let players find their own right combination of skills and gear. Place an upper limit on the most powerful gear in the game, but provide lots of it—variety of abilities and gear and finding matching with different abilities should be the progression for players who play for epic achievement. A good example of this is The Secret World there are no levels and players complete content to gain new abilities and skill points to increase their characters attributes.

[Clavaat]

-snip-

You have to recall a few things about FFXI. The first being the sheer grind to get to 75. It took a very very long time to get there, but it wasn't particularly difficult. Also, we as NA players started when the first expansion was already out. This allowed for a lot of time to build between RoZ and CoP. Most NA players were just getting or not quite 75 yet by the time that expansion was released. Also, the cap used to be 50 at launch. The reason that game retained a high player base was because NA players were always slightly behind content-wise, and Japanese players didn't care about maximization as much, but exploration so they were always entertained by the world. We started 2.0 at essentially the same time as the rest of the world, and yes, it is much faster, but content-wise, it is almost equivalent to vanilla FFXI.

I'd seriously recommend dropping the game and picking it up after an expansion or two if you are specifically looking for the FFXI experience, which I totally understand. This game will thrive because it has made SE so much money, but a dev team has a schedule already made. Once the fiscal quarter changes, we may be able to see a difference in the dev cycle, but until then we just have to be patient. This goes for anyone.

[Zarzak]

The point of this isn't to tell anyone "there's stuff to do you're technically incorrect", but rather to point out there are options still available you once enjoyed that gave you a reason to play in the first place.

The problem is there are a LOT of us who have nothing to do.

Going down your list...

PVP? Yep not quite capped yet but as that is the only option available right now..... Can only do so much of it.

Chocobo? That is solo player content. This is a MULTIPLAYER game. While I personally have it done counting that in his "list of things to do in this MMO he plays" is insanity.

Seals? How is he not capped 0_o fates prior to 2.1 left me with capped AND every pet, barding, item I could want from them leveling up alt classes. And now the dailies even give seals.


achievements? Again... solo player content. There are next to none that involve any player to player interaction (such as dungeon achievements. And I HATE instanced dungeons but I will say in Rift getting a group together and trying to clear those achievements was fun)



Your friend obviously knows that an MMO is about playing with OTHER PEOPLE unlike the modern MMO where everyone cries that they can't live in their antisocial bubble and get raid gear without ever grouping with another human being. And he is 100% correct there are 3 things you can do. PVP , Dungeons (until you have every class 50 anyay... then you just do 3-4 a week for myth), and BC once a week (which takes about 40 minutes)

I'd seriously recommend dropping the game and picking it up after an expansion or two if you are specifically looking for the FFXI experience, which I totally understand. This game will thrive because it has made SE so much money, but a dev team has a schedule already made. Once the fiscal quarter changes, we may be able to see a difference in the dev cycle, but until then we just have to be patient. This goes for anyone.

If this was XI or EQ sure... This is a modern design MMO. If he picks up the game in 2 expansion he will still only take about a month to hit cap, then he will do whatever the current tier of dungeons is and in about 5 weeks be max geared. Modern MMO system is to invalidate content each time more is released. Group gear replaces raid gear instantly. Instead of the EQ/XI design where group gear doesn't catch up to raid gear for like 3 expansions.

[Yurimi]

You have to recall a few things about FFXI. The first being the sheer grind to get to 75. It took a very very long time to get there, but it wasn't particularly difficult. Also, we as NA players started when the first expansion was already out. This allowed for a lot of time to build between RoZ and CoP. Most NA players were just getting or not quite 75 yet by the time that expansion was released. Also, the cap used to be 50 at launch. The reason that game retained a high player base was because NA players were always slightly behind content-wise, and Japanese players didn't care about maximization as much, but exploration so they were always entertained by the world. We started 2.0 at essentially the same time as the rest of the world, and yes, it is much faster, but content-wise, it is almost equivalent to vanilla FFXI.

I'd seriously recommend dropping the game and picking it up after an expansion or two if you are specifically looking for the FFXI experience, which I totally understand. This game will thrive because it has made SE so much money, but a dev team has a schedule already made. Once the fiscal quarter changes, we may be able to see a difference in the dev cycle, but until then we just have to be patient. This goes for anyone.

I could drop the game and pick it up at a later date.. but with vertical progression rather than horizontal what content is there to do beyond what was JUST released. Next patch Coil is farmable is there a point to doing crystal tower.... ever ? But vanity you may say. Ok I have the vanity set I like (for me its the acolytes set) what reason would someone who came in at 3.0 or 4.0 ever have to do crystal tower or ifrit ex outside of the one time they need to complete it for the story. Are the masses going to be clammering to get in on Coil Turn 3 next patch ? Does anyone still farm WP for the i55 weapons now or do you all just skip it and go straight for ifrit garuda and such. The way this game is working skipping an expansion or 2 just means I have more to not do because its worthless to do. I started during the original japanese beta for FFXI. I remember when HNM's were steelfleece and bloodtear and I remember when the original behemoth came out (ever wonder why it drops items for Lv. 60) and I remember when you needed an alliance to kill king arthro. I was there and rather enjoyed the content growth but for years your content was going to be content you could do. Up until Abyssea and the release of the bullwhip belt there were still 50+ people for every KA pop. people would still farm demonic Tiphia for her stinger. People would still do dynamis for their AF2. If I come back in 3 years am I still going to be doing coil Turn 2 for any reason other than if its absolutely needed to progress probably not.

[Susanoh]

What would you classify as "meaningful content"? And how can you be any kind of certain that if your description existed you wouldn't have already exhausted it and be complaining about something else?

Well, just for example, if the open world had more difficult enemies and a reason to take them on like valuable items for crafting, pop items for even more challenging enemies, etc. more people might be out in the open world fighting them and leveling their chocobos. If gathering items were a bit more scarce and possibly somewhat dangerous to acquire, and they were used in items that were desirable alternatives for the majority of players, it might help rejuvenate interest in crafting/gathering jobs and the markets as a whole, because as it stands almost everything is overly abundant and not very desirable and it shows on the markets when nearly everything has hit rock bottom prices. If every piece of content wasn't designed to throw some equipment at you that gets obsoleted linearly by the very next piece of content you're meant to do, more people might want to stick around and experience most of what the game has to offer.

As it stands now, most content in the game isn't meant to be challenging. People aren't going to bother capping company seals to buy equipment that becomes obsolete in a mere few hours of button mashing in FATEs. People aren't going to care if their chocobo is leveled if instanced content is the only content being taken seriously by the developers for high level play and you can run around the highest level areas in the game and solo multiple mobs in seconds. People who care about the state of crafting, gathering, and the markets are going to find the current situation a bit mundane because there's very little in the way of valuable items that people actually want to buy. Everything is handed to you up to a certain point and they you hit a wall where you either create goals for yourself or you stop playing, and for many this point comes pretty quickly in this game.

For your other question, I have no idea whether this person would be complaining or not if more options were there, but whether they'd be complaining or not, I still find it to be a valid point that there aren't a whole lot of meaningful things to actually log in and do currently.

[Susanoh]

While I can see why people would be frustrated that they've completed the existing content many times over, that is still unique to those people, regardless of how many there are. The game is not just aimed at people who can play for many hours every single day, but also at people who only have an hour or two per day, or even only a few days a week, to play, but still want to accomplish things. Now, I'm not saying that means SE shouldn't introduce more content for the people who DO have the time, but I'm honestly pretty surprised that people expect the devs to simply pull content out of their backsides. Introducing a few new dungeons each patch is actually pretty awesome, and they're also adding mini events to keep players interested. If that doesn't interest the people who are frustrated, that's simply too bad. Devs can't please everyone, right?

They'd never be able to create enough fresh content to keep hardcore players interested, but what they could do is provide challenging methods of progress that require effort to go alongside their current methods of progress which is entirely based on lockouts. New dungeons, boss fights, etc. are great, and I'm glad they're adding them, but if they follow the exact same design philosophy as all of their previous content, then after a few days when everyone's tried out the new content, it goes back to being exactly the same as it was before. I'm fully in favor of lockout activities as they're perfect for providing meaningful content with rewards at a reasonable pace without going overboard, but when lockout events are considered to be the one and only path to meaningful progress and crafting, gathering, open world combat activities, etc. all have little impact on your character, other characters and the game world, that's when you start to see people complaining because they really want to log in and do something that has an effect on something after they're done with all their lockouts, and all they get in response is menial tasks that have no effect on anything like "Cap your seals," "Level every job," or "Catch every fish in the game."

[Doki]

Content locust = HIGH tolerance for repetition.