Tank and heal shortage

[lxSch]

@ eagledorf

Just asking, how do you deal with adds when tanker does not flash and overpower at first?
Also, how do you keep to dps when dpsers are tanking half of adds and eat every red zone damage? I usually end up with only enough mana to physick the tanker and 2 dead dps (mad at me for not reviving, often abandoning duty).
If i know other 3 players are good - i will shadowflare and bane at every pull, but so far i never had such team in duty finder. I mostly spam wonder's palace for phyl and myth tomes, usually my #1 priority is to save dps from tonberry 2-shot, 2nd priority is to keep the tanker alive (who pulled 2-3 groups for the sake of fast run).
Forgot to say, Selene tanks well under 'sustain', a good perk of not healing from start.

[XanderOlivieri]

I see more Summoner healers in CT then I do White Mage's.

We are a dying breed, blarg.

Galvanize and Stoneskin really hurt White Mages in terms of defenses. Though to be fair, healing output on WHT compared to SCH is just so much better in bursts. I always have to focus Aldoquiem on Tank to catch up with the healing, then drop either Shadow Flare if I have time or Eye for an Eye to lower the damage coming in. I've gotten yelled at so many times for using Sacred Soil to try and lessen damage....yet I saw it drop at least 14 times in CT last night.

Why must people have different preferences TTwTT


I main Summoner. Its incredibly easy to play once you know your DoT rotations and learn to keep them active without burning up your MP too much. I side Scholar for personal use and smaller group use and usually I have a hard time healing. I was just barely able to keep a tank alive my first run through Wanderer's Palace. Managed to pull through without a single wipe on my first run which made me happy. Depending on dungeon I don't feel as if I have enough healing output so Healer is definitely harder for me to play, but I enjoy it. Tank on the other hand for me is inbetween healer and DPS. I see the roles as:

Tank pulls and is the center focus for the enemy. He has a lot of priority, but even if he fails at it, it should be ok cause a quick instant raise should get him back on his feet.

DPS are the expendable limbs to the group. Its ok when one falls as there is another to pull slack until the other is brought back up. If both go down, then a bit of priority needs to be put on raising at least one of the two.

Healer is the soul of the team. If the healer dies, its a wipe in a 4 person group. If you don't have a Summoner or a Phoenix Down and not way to raise the healer, you guys are dead.


A good team will cover adequately when another falls. Tank falls, the thicker DPS tries to gain hate off healer to revive the Tank. DPS falls, healer should try to get the DPS back up less both die and get screwed. The DPS should always be defending the healer. That should be a priority. Kill the things targeting the healer as fast as possible.

As for toxic members, I've seen extreme hate from everyone. Wiped at least 8 times in Amdapor Keep. Had 1 new player who was the healer. Didn't know about the ball that kills you if you drop it in the wrong place. He had the ball drop on him 6 times. The other two times the ball dropped on the Bard who was mid combo attacking the boss. First tank (Wipes 1-5) was patient but didn't explain anything until later (after wipe 2). Second tank was very aggressive. He really didn't like the healer and the chat box was very colorful with his ???????'d sentences because of the profanity filter. The Bard and Tank both leave while we have less than 15 mins left and another group comes in. I said we wiped 8 times already and one leaves the other calls in an FC member.

We beat the boss with like 2 mins left, all my gear was Condition 0 so my damage was like nil, thank god the other DPS was a dragoon. Healer made mistakes, but even I think the way the tank complained was a bit overboard. It was his first time...even if he did have ilvl 60 gear. Course, guess that just means Gear isn't everything in this game.

[mnm]

IME way too many tanks act like it's so hard to do, because they want the praise and adulation. It's far easier than DPSing or healing, IMHO.

True that once the tanks established aggro, there's not really alot to do other than pop cooldowns at the right moment. HOWEVER, just that one SINGLE 'pop cooldown at the right moment' = wipe or ex.primal weapon.

I played as a PLD, WHM, SCH, DRG. If new contents' out, gotta say out of the 4 jobs, I would most certainly queue as a DRG. Why? because you ARE allowed to screw up. So what if your DOTs are not 24/7 on the boss, so what if you lag spiked and died. NONE of these will cause an INSTANT wipe.

Therefore, conclusion. DPS screw up, might be a wipe but not instant where ppl give up hope on the fight. HEALER/TANK screw up, almost certain in 90% of the fight, it's instant wipe... go figure which job has more responsibility in terms of time efficiency and players' patience.

[eagledorf]

@ eagledorf

Just asking, how do you deal with adds when tanker does not flash and overpower at first?.

1) Run up to the tank within Flash range or in their Overpower cone
2) Keep healing

Lustrate, Swiftcast, Surecast, and any fairy actions will all go through even if you're being hit. Frankly most casts will go through unless you're being hit on by the entire swarm of mobs.

If the tank is too stupid to pull them back off of you, then yes, you may wipe. Honestly, I have failed a dungeon in DF only once in my memory so I doubt the average player is as bad as you say.

And yes, the fairy makes a good tank.

[OPneedNerfs]

1-50 tanking is a joke.

However, most people saying that tanking is easy because of that, obviously haven't done anything past the basic dungeons.

Come trials/coil when the tank actually has to do stuff other than hold aggro, that's when the problem comes in.

Stop projecting the false image that tanking is "easy". It's only easy until you hit trials and coil. If you only bother doing roulettes and common dungeons on your tank class, I'm sorry, you haven't experienced true tanking yet.

If you've actually tanked all the EMs along with Coil all the way to Turn 5, then say that tanking is easier than DPS for all of the above cases, then I say good for you, you are a natural tank player.

But for the average player in the current playerbase, DPS will never, and i repeat, NEVER be harder to play than a tank.

[lxSch]

Lustrate x 6 + swiftcast->galvanize works well, but they are the last resort skills, i try to save them.
I noticed some tankers that do speed runs sometimes range pick one mob (social), related mob group gets after the tanker, tanker runs for the 2nd group (not using flash), then for the 3rd, then he stops, uses flash/whatever else aoe. If i heal before that - i am dead, if i spammed 6x lustrate - tanker is dead from 3 groups (i am not running in overgeared teams from DF).
I did not say i fail dungeons - i meant it can cause an unreasonable wipe.

[eagledorf]

I think we have to agree to disagree now that all of the content has been figured out.

The easy way to think about it is, what fraction of the time do you actually wipe due to a certain role's failure to fulfill its tasks? I would say in the vast majority of encounters, it is Healers/DPS->Tanks, even in the endgame content, with the exception of Garuda EX and t4, where it is pretty unquestionably tanks. Of course in terms of who is most easily able to cause a wipe, it is Tanks/Healers->DPS, but that's a reflection of your level of responsibility, not difficulty.

Coil is basically the same as the dungeons until t4. There is the tank swapping in t2 and the split for t1, but nothing is actually difficult if you know what's happening. (If you don't know what's happening, it's hard on everybody. "IT'S ONESHOTTING EVERYTHING! Why? We killed the other snake! Maybe next time we can try letting them merge again?"). T4, if you're MT and know the fight, it's still pretty easy; if you're OT it's very involved. Kudos to people who are confident about doing that, because it intimidates the heck out of me.

Garuda is somewhat disorienting...Like T4 I think tanks do have the hardest job here.

@IxSch ah...I never do it that way myself (I always flash from group to group when I pull more than one), but yes, in that case you all have to wait for the tank to establish aggro on the entire group. They shouldn't be at risk of dying until they actually stop long enough for mobs to hit them more than a few times.

[Kinseykinz]

I see more Summoner healers in CT then I do White Mage's.

We are a dying breed, blarg.

I only end up 'healing' on SMN in CT because the 6 healers actually in the instance for some strange reason aren't healing the tanks/players etc (even when people aren't being dumb and all spread over hill and dale). I don't run CT as my WHM (my main) mostly because I am trying to get better at SMN/like to be able to turn 'troll chat' off (alliance chat). When I DO heal though, I Also end up healing typically 4/6 tanks in the alliance...AND my party...solo. So basically, SMN's tend to be forced to heal/res in CT because the actual healers are NOT healing...they are AFK (lots of the time) or in CS...or Holy Spamming...or not healing the pots...or just plan old new to the dungeon and don't know what to do/who to watch.

[Elim]

TL;DR version: A few rotten apples make people not want to tank/heal. It's not the sole cause of the shortage, but something that can really go a long way in making people want to tank is to try and be friendly and understanding with folks, regardless of job or role in the party.

Been leveling my tank.

I just leave dungeons if people want to be rude to me while I'm tanking(everything is insta pop as a tank so...). I'm sure the tank shortage isn't THAT bad. They'll probably only be waiting, at very max, 10 minutes for another anyway. Hopefully the next tank will move slower/faster, whatever they prefer.

[Gandora]

Yesterday I got ninja lotted in CT after my 23th attempt to see the piece of gear I wanted when it was agreed that I would get it cause no one else supposedly wanted it, just look at the PF when its about CT, parties are full & just missing 2 tanks. It drop on KB & it take up to 40 mins average to get there. I did queue as a tank from the begining to help/quicken it.

Result? I'll get on the asshole side & spam for "in progress parties" until I get what I want then get out once I get it.

Your question might be "Why should other people pay for the bad attitude of one person?" My answer to you will be "Why should I have to pay the price of being a tank in so many situations where all I was doing was helping people that are too lazy to level up or play a tank class?"

The situation must look irrelevant to you? its 50-50, Tanks get bored in CT and too easily blamed for anything that goes wrong (again/usual) so yep. Its not like if only the assholes were getting everything they want to the cost of nice players. Oh wait...