Terrible Payment System

[SilvertearRen]

Everyone that played FFXI assumed that any changes to the billing system could only be an improvement, after years of double billing, overcharging (reactivating for the last day of month = $12.95 for 1 day + $12.95 for the next month, plus $2 per mule), lack of subscription based billing cycle and other issues. But they were wrong. Dead wrong. It could indeed get worse.

Thanks everyone for helping to keep this alive. While it's not as popular as the FFXI thread with over 1,000 posts, for a community of our size it really shows a large chunk of players feel the same way. As this is currently the largest thread on the FFXIV forums dealing with payment concerns, a community rep response is long overdue.

I agree. However, I feel as if Square-Enix is trying to kick the can down the road by keeping quiet about it - or the community reps are too afraid to actually bring the issue to the attention of the top brass in Tokyo. There's SOMETHING that led Square Enix to choose ClickandBuy over a proper, regulated American payment processing company - or doing it themselves. To me, this suggests that there have been business ethics violations on the same scale as the Livedoor scandal, and Square is probably trying their hardest to keep a lid on it.

Well, it's going to be impossible to keep a lid on it as long as users are willing to quit over a lack of reliable, trustworthy payment processing options.

P.S. Side note to Square Enix: If ClickandBuy tells you "we're reliable, we're trustworthy", and you're willing to put more value on their word over the customer's, then there is a very serious problem going on internally at Square-Enix...

[Chocobits]

I agree. However, I feel as if Square-Enix is trying to kick the can down the road by keeping quiet about it - or the community reps are too afraid to actually bring the issue to the attention of the top brass in Tokyo. There's SOMETHING that led Square Enix to choose ClickandBuy over a proper, regulated American payment processing company - or doing it themselves. To me, this suggests that there have been business ethics violations on the same scale as the Livedoor scandal, and Square is probably trying their hardest to keep a lid on it.

Well, it's going to be impossible to keep a lid on it as long as users are willing to quit over a lack of reliable, trustworthy payment processing options.

P.S. Side note to Square Enix: If ClickandBuy tells you "we're reliable, we're trustworthy", and you're willing to put more value on their word over the customer's, then there is a very serious problem going on internally at Square-Enix...

I could be very off base with this observation, and if so correct me, but I've always felt that the Japanese business model revolved around the fact that JPs are more docile and less vocally objective than in countries like the US, so they don't tend to cry foul like we would. Negotiations are done in pubs and taverns over many drinks, and it's customary for one or both parties to bring "gifts" to the meeting, including money, women, jewelry or other incentives. Don't confuse gifts with bribes though - they're two very different things!

If something goes terribly wrong and an apology is needed, it's a very overly melodramatic affair where someone falls on their sword and accepts responsibility, instead of laying out a clear and concise plan out action to remedy the situation. (Tanakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Which works great. If your only customers are Japanese clients. Since they're not, antiquated business model is antiquated.

[SilvertearRen]

I could be very off base with this observation, and if so correct me, but I've always felt that the Japanese business model revolved around the fact that JPs are more docile and less vocally objective than in countries like the US, so they don't tend to cry foul like we would. Negotiations are done in pubs and taverns over many drinks, and it's customary for one or both parties to bring "gifts" to the meeting, including money, women, jewelry or other incentives. Don't confuse gifts with bribes though - they're two very different things!

If something goes terribly wrong and an apology is needed, it's a very overly melodramatic affair where someone falls on their sword and accepts responsibility, instead of laying out a clear and concise plan out action to remedy the situation. (Tanakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Which works great. If your only customers are Japanese clients. Since they're not, antiquated business model is antiquated.

You've nailed it on the head. Square Enix is not a multinational company in the strictest sense of the word, so they ARE still adhering to Japanese models of business, which are not viable in the West. Falling on the sword analogy is very apt here, and I think we're going to see that happen again when the sh*t hits the fan over ClickandBuy, resulting in someone from the top brass taking an early retirement...

[Chocobits]

You've nailed it on the head. Square Enix is not a multinational company in the strictest sense of the word, so they ARE still adhering to Japanese models of business, which are not viable in the West. Falling on the sword analogy is very apt here, and I think we're going to see that happen again when the sh*t hits the fan over ClickandBuy, resulting in someone from the top brass taking an early retirement...

I think instead of resignations, how about EXPLANATIONS? Give us some insight into why decisions were made and we'll tell you if we feel it was an understandable mistake or if you should clear out half your staff!

And instead of profuse aporogies, why not use an ounce of prevention..? Common sense is anything but common, but you can rent it by hiring independent firms to research and analyze multinational payment gateways and payment options.

[SilvertearRen]

I think instead of resignations, how about EXPLANATIONS? Give us some insight into why decisions were made and we'll tell you if we feel it was an understandable mistake or if you should clear out half your staff!

And instead of profuse aporogies, why not use an ounce of prevention..? Common sense is anything but common, but you can rent it by hiring independent firms to research and analyze multinational payment gateways and payment options.

I am really wishing that Square Enix is listening, because for god's sake, I am NOT paying in crysta or via ClickandBuy for FFXIV! EVER. The way UltimatePay and Crysta works is a waste of money for people outside Japan.

What's ludicrous is that I heard that Japanese players can buy SPECIFIC amounts of Crysta, to conform with the subscription cost without having to buy a ridiculous pre-set amount.

This just goes to further show that Square Enix seems to be every bit as determined to piss off the world outside Japan!

[Catapult]

I could be very off base with this observation, and if so correct me, but I've always felt that the Japanese business model revolved around the fact that JPs are more docile and less vocally objective than in countries like the US, so they don't tend to cry foul like we would. Negotiations are done in pubs and taverns over many drinks, and it's customary for one or both parties to bring "gifts" to the meeting, including money, women, jewelry or other incentives. Don't confuse gifts with bribes though - they're two very different things!

If something goes terribly wrong and an apology is needed, it's a very overly melodramatic affair where someone falls on their sword and accepts responsibility, instead of laying out a clear and concise plan out action to remedy the situation. (Tanakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Which works great. If your only customers are Japanese clients. Since they're not, antiquated business model is antiquated.

So at Nintendo Iwata took a 50% pay cut in response to the poor performance of the Nintendo 3DS... I think I appreciate that better now. But at least Nintendo have acted quickly and concisely and thus stand a chance of rebounding. Squeenix.... not so much.

It reminds me about what I learnt about customer behavior and their expectations varying around the world.
- Americans want people to run around them involving as many people as possible to get a problem fixed, regardless of how costly or time consuming.
- Germans don't really care about the customer service as long as the product quality ends up being top notch.
- Australians are really lazy and want the first person they speak to to push the magic "fix" button and take care of things behind the scenes quickly.
- I guess the Japanese want to see the person responsible take responsibility.

(Remember, these are general trends and don't describe EVERYONE in the given nationality.)

[Viridiana]

You really think the Yakuza would dabble in a company like SE? I find that hard to believe, however...I don't know a lot about the history and culture of Japan...so who knows...regardless yeah I would like to see the stock holders in SE...would be rather interesting....I think.

You'd be surprised. . .

[Chocobits]

Tiny bit of self bump. Gotta keep posts coming in every day people or the thread gets buried and we lose! Can't let the fattycats win!

[SoraLeoyfaith]

So at Nintendo Iwata took a 50% pay cut in response to the poor performance of the Nintendo 3DS... I think I appreciate that better now. But at least Nintendo have acted quickly and concisely and thus stand a chance of rebounding. Squeenix.... not so much.

It reminds me about what I learnt about customer behavior and their expectations varying around the world.
- Americans want people to run around them involving as many people as possible to get a problem fixed, regardless of how costly or time consuming.
- Germans don't really care about the customer service as long as the product quality ends up being top notch.
- Australians are really lazy and want the first person they speak to to push the magic "fix" button and take care of things behind the scenes quickly.
- I guess the Japanese want to see the person responsible take responsibility.

(Remember, these are general trends and don't describe EVERYONE in the given nationality.)

Actuallly at this point, all of these above at the same time.

-It would be nice to know if they are working on it or not
-I honestly woulnd.t have to care if the product was top notch this shouldn.t have to happen
-I want it to be fix right now have better payment method is the basic if you want to get pay.
-If someone hired a compagny like ClickandBuy no matter what country or position they better take responsability!

But honestly I don't know what they thinking, because here in canada at least they can get sue for hiring a compagny that have fraud report against them.

[SilvertearRen]

Actuallly at this point, all of these above at the same time.

-It would be nice to know if they are working on it or not
-I honestly woulnd.t have to care if the product was top notch this shouldn.t have to happen
-I want it to be fix right now have better payment method is the basic if you want to get pay.
-If someone hired a compagny like ClickandBuy no matter what country or position they better take responsability!

But honestly I don't know what they thinking, because here in canada at least they can get sue for hiring a compagny that have fraud report against them.

Can you start the litigation? PLEASE?

A lawsuit is more likely to get their attention than a thread on some forum.