Terrible Payment System

[Lerris]

Can't even buy Crysta directly from SE...
Have to go through UltimatePay or ClickandBuy.

I don't understand why they can't piggyback on the PlayOnline billing system. This is perhaps the biggest step backwards for SE where FFXIV is concerned.

[giftforce]

Can't even buy Crysta directly from SE...
Have to go through UltimatePay or ClickandBuy.

I don't understand why they can't piggyback on the PlayOnline billing system. This is perhaps the biggest step backwards for SE where FFXIV is concerned.

let's not get carried away

[Captaindownsyndrome]

Can't even buy Crysta directly from SE...
Have to go through UltimatePay or ClickandBuy.

I don't understand why they can't piggyback on the PlayOnline billing system. This is perhaps the biggest step backwards for SE where FFXIV is concerned.

i bought it though paypal

[Chocobits]

like RMT and BOTs, SE has to investigate C&B before they act, you cant just act on somthing before really looking into it.

Which would be all well and good if they had given us any indication that they were investigating allegations of fraudulent/questionable fees. Instead, they give us an updated Agreement that pretty much condones arbitrary charges against us by any Tom and Harry involved.

The rage against CnB isn't solely because people are wary of its reputation or the questionable transactions it performs against users. It's about SE offering CnB as 1 of 2 incredibly crappy options (or in the case of 1/4 of the free world, non-options where Crysta is unavailable). And SE doesn't need to investigate this company. The nation's leading banks have already done so and decided to preemptively block transactions from this company based on their history.

So the real solution for the time being is to move the focus away from CnB and demand more reasonable funding options that do not result in ludicrous fees/charges or sending photocopies of sensitive personal and financial information to a third party overseas.

Disregarding the fact that Square-Enix has blatantly slapped all non-Japanese citizens in the face by withdrawing direct payment options, we're still left without any reasonable or fair funding options. We have the money and we want to pay, but won't (or can't) with the system the way it is. To paraphrase Octaviane from an anti-CnB FFXI thread:

It's not our fault the bigwigs can't run a brothel in a red light district.

[SilvertearRen]

Can't even buy Crysta directly from SE...
Have to go through UltimatePay or ClickandBuy.

I don't understand why they can't piggyback on the PlayOnline billing system. This is perhaps the biggest step backwards for SE where FFXIV is concerned.

The problem with POL was that the billing system did not start when the player started the subscription, and only stuck to the first day of each month. So it left some users a little annoyed, but geez! Count on Square Enix to make the problem even worse!

[Chocobits]

The problem with POL was that the billing system did not start when the player started the subscription, and only stuck to the first day of each month. So it left some users a little annoyed, but geez! Count on Square Enix to make the problem even worse!

Everyone that played FFXI assumed that any changes to the billing system could only be an improvement, after years of double billing, overcharging (reactivating for the last day of month = $12.95 for 1 day + $12.95 for the next month, plus $2 per mule), lack of subscription based billing cycle and other issues. But they were wrong. Dead wrong. It could indeed get worse.

Thanks everyone for helping to keep this alive. While it's not as popular as the FFXI thread with over 1,000 posts, for a community of our size it really shows a large chunk of players feel the same way. As this is currently the largest thread on the FFXIV forums dealing with payment concerns, a community rep response is long overdue.

[SilvertearRen]

Everyone that played FFXI assumed that any changes to the billing system could only be an improvement, after years of double billing, overcharging (reactivating for the last day of month = $12.95 for 1 day + $12.95 for the next month, plus $2 per mule), lack of subscription based billing cycle and other issues. But they were wrong. Dead wrong. It could indeed get worse.

Thanks everyone for helping to keep this alive. While it's not as popular as the FFXI thread with over 1,000 posts, for a community of our size it really shows a large chunk of players feel the same way. As this is currently the largest thread on the FFXIV forums dealing with payment concerns, a community rep response is long overdue.

I agree. However, I feel as if Square-Enix is trying to kick the can down the road by keeping quiet about it - or the community reps are too afraid to actually bring the issue to the attention of the top brass in Tokyo. There's SOMETHING that led Square Enix to choose ClickandBuy over a proper, regulated American payment processing company - or doing it themselves. To me, this suggests that there have been business ethics violations on the same scale as the Livedoor scandal, and Square is probably trying their hardest to keep a lid on it.

Well, it's going to be impossible to keep a lid on it as long as users are willing to quit over a lack of reliable, trustworthy payment processing options.

P.S. Side note to Square Enix: If ClickandBuy tells you "we're reliable, we're trustworthy", and you're willing to put more value on their word over the customer's, then there is a very serious problem going on internally at Square-Enix...

[Chocobits]

I agree. However, I feel as if Square-Enix is trying to kick the can down the road by keeping quiet about it - or the community reps are too afraid to actually bring the issue to the attention of the top brass in Tokyo. There's SOMETHING that led Square Enix to choose ClickandBuy over a proper, regulated American payment processing company - or doing it themselves. To me, this suggests that there have been business ethics violations on the same scale as the Livedoor scandal, and Square is probably trying their hardest to keep a lid on it.

Well, it's going to be impossible to keep a lid on it as long as users are willing to quit over a lack of reliable, trustworthy payment processing options.

P.S. Side note to Square Enix: If ClickandBuy tells you "we're reliable, we're trustworthy", and you're willing to put more value on their word over the customer's, then there is a very serious problem going on internally at Square-Enix...

I could be very off base with this observation, and if so correct me, but I've always felt that the Japanese business model revolved around the fact that JPs are more docile and less vocally objective than in countries like the US, so they don't tend to cry foul like we would. Negotiations are done in pubs and taverns over many drinks, and it's customary for one or both parties to bring "gifts" to the meeting, including money, women, jewelry or other incentives. Don't confuse gifts with bribes though - they're two very different things!

If something goes terribly wrong and an apology is needed, it's a very overly melodramatic affair where someone falls on their sword and accepts responsibility, instead of laying out a clear and concise plan out action to remedy the situation. (Tanakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Which works great. If your only customers are Japanese clients. Since they're not, antiquated business model is antiquated.

[SilvertearRen]

I could be very off base with this observation, and if so correct me, but I've always felt that the Japanese business model revolved around the fact that JPs are more docile and less vocally objective than in countries like the US, so they don't tend to cry foul like we would. Negotiations are done in pubs and taverns over many drinks, and it's customary for one or both parties to bring "gifts" to the meeting, including money, women, jewelry or other incentives. Don't confuse gifts with bribes though - they're two very different things!

If something goes terribly wrong and an apology is needed, it's a very overly melodramatic affair where someone falls on their sword and accepts responsibility, instead of laying out a clear and concise plan out action to remedy the situation. (Tanakaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa)

Which works great. If your only customers are Japanese clients. Since they're not, antiquated business model is antiquated.

You've nailed it on the head. Square Enix is not a multinational company in the strictest sense of the word, so they ARE still adhering to Japanese models of business, which are not viable in the West. Falling on the sword analogy is very apt here, and I think we're going to see that happen again when the sh*t hits the fan over ClickandBuy, resulting in someone from the top brass taking an early retirement...

[Chocobits]

You've nailed it on the head. Square Enix is not a multinational company in the strictest sense of the word, so they ARE still adhering to Japanese models of business, which are not viable in the West. Falling on the sword analogy is very apt here, and I think we're going to see that happen again when the sh*t hits the fan over ClickandBuy, resulting in someone from the top brass taking an early retirement...

I think instead of resignations, how about EXPLANATIONS? Give us some insight into why decisions were made and we'll tell you if we feel it was an understandable mistake or if you should clear out half your staff!

And instead of profuse aporogies, why not use an ounce of prevention..? Common sense is anything but common, but you can rent it by hiring independent firms to research and analyze multinational payment gateways and payment options.