SCH vs WHM .. something is off?

[Akiva_Ninazu]

Before I begin, let me preface that I have both SCH and WHM in +1 and around i84 or so (dont remember exactly on both). They both have a role and I swap back and forth constantly. No favoritism.

Does it seem to anyone else that WHM getting the stronger stoneskin AND stronger protect is a bit ... off? SCH is by and large the protection and mitigation healer, so shouldn't one (or even both?) of those be stronger than the WHM's? Granted, if that were switched (and that would really rattle each class quite a bit, so probably not really feasible), WHM would have to be comp'ed in some way, but still ...

I get that they're CNJ native skills, but that seems weird in and off itself, since SCH is pointed so hard at mitigating DMG vs bulk heals.

I could live with:

- Protect and Stoneskin stay how they are, SCH gets Shell for additional magic dmg mitigation & it can't be cross-classed.

OR

- Sacred soil comes off the aether flow stacks and just has its current cool-down, maybe +10 sec or so. Allowing it to cast w/out consuming the stacks typically needed for energy drain or lustrate would give it a much more prominent position in most SCH rotations and bump them up terms of mitigation vs the enhanced protect.

OR

Maybe allow equipping the SCH stone to convert one of the now-useless INT-granting traits to enhanced stoneskin, cutting the cost in half or so to make it more user-friendly during a fight.

Thoughts?

[Aphrini]

Hey you SCH types (regardless if you have both leveled or not) need to leave our WHM stuff alone! it is fine enough the way it is

[YuiSasaki]

I'm playing SCH as my main and i totally agree with Aphrini.

Sch dont need the improved Protect, considering that Eos has a skill which increases MagArm.
Not to mention that a critted adloq is still way better than a Stoneskin (enhanced or not) to begin with.

Sacred Soil should stay on AF stacks. The most important thing as a SCH (and probably as a WHM as well) is to expect incoming damage and prepare for it (via adloq, succor and sacred soil). Taking it off the AF stacks would just result in placing it randomly and being OP, as it costs nothing and has a rather short CD.

I kind of agree with you that the Int increasing traits are pointless as a SCH and should be replaced by something like increases MND (or PIE to create a difference between WHM and SCH - and please dont flame like "WTF DUDE ARE U FUCKING KIDDING ME WE NO NEEDZ PIETY GO AWAY WE NEEDZ MORE MINDZ TO INCREAZE OUR HEALING OUTPUT ZOMFGTROLOLOLOLOL NOOB"). But it should NOT be replaced by an enhanced Stoneskin or enhanced Protect.

The one healing class that actually needs a buff is the WHM, considering that PoM and Benediction have a CD that is way to long(and other things - not to mention that benediction fails to often..).

[Akiva_Ninazu]

Oh, don't get me wrong. WHM needs work. MP management and threat management in general are terrible and there's a litany of changes needed to make Benediction and PoM workable (plus I think WHM in particular is in sore need of a placeable AOE heal - think Sacred Soil, but with a slow regen instead of mitigation. SWotR did this quite well on Sorc healers), but this one difference in the classes seemed out of whack to me. I'd be willing to bet it's a hold-over from WHM being the only healer in the dev process for God knows how long. As it stands though:

"So, which one of these healers is the mitigation one?"
"Scholar."
"So which one do we give the better shared mitigation skills to?"
"White Mage"



I switch back and forth a lot, but WHM is more or less my "main," but it still seems wonky. Don't think SCH should get both and I'd be loathe to see WHM get nerfed in any way since it already has other systemic issues, but I could see SCH getting a bit of a mitigation boost, too.

What if soil came off the stacks but had a casting cost equivalent to something like Medica II on WHM? I could rationalize something that puts a little more pressure on the SCH MP bar, since it seems like, at least in my experience running SCH, you really have to derp up your "rotation" as it is to feel any pressure on MP management.

[YuiSasaki]

I see where you are coming from, yet as I pointed out earlier it's just not necessary.

Not to mention the point of class variety.

Edit: The only thing i'd copy from swtor would be the "Draw-In"-Spell, where you pull a friendly target to your position.

[Akiva_Ninazu]

I dunno... it just seems odd when you have SCH/WHM running together, SCH is the mitigation healer, but that same SCH will get smacked in the mouth by most of the party if he over-writes a WHM stone skin or protect.

Agreed, though, SWTOR-style pulling would be amazing. While we're doing it, lets pull over the channeled heal, too.

[YuiSasaki]

I dunno... it just seems odd when you have SCH/WHM running together, SCH is the mitigation healer, but that same SCH will get smacked in the mouth by most of the party if he over-writes a WHM stone skin or protect.

Agreed, though, SWTOR-style pulling would be amazing. While we're doing it, lets pull over the channeled heal, too.

Well, i wouldnt bother buffing Stoneskin / Protect if a WHM is in the group. The main reason for this is: There is enough time for that prefight; and infight using Adloq is just way better^^

[Soulburn32]

you can't over-write a stronger shield

whm ss will always be ontop if active
whm protect will always be ontop if active

same with SCH you notice you can only have one Galvanize? The higher of the 2 will always remain.

[Sebazy]

Does it seem to anyone else that WHM getting the stronger stoneskin AND stronger protect is a bit ... off?

No, Adloqium is easily as good as stoneskin and in many regards is a far stronger spell (quicker cast, effective on soft targets, heal component) whilst in combat and only really loses out in the annoyance of trying to precast it for a pull.

SCH gets Shell for additional magic dmg mitigation & it can't be cross-classed.

Fey Covenant

- Sacred soil comes off the aether flow stacks and just has its current cool-down, maybe +10 sec or so.

It's pretty clear that virus chains were too strong, doing this would just line another ability up on the chopping block. No thanks!

Maybe allow equipping the SCH stone to convert one of the now-useless INT-granting traits to enhanced stoneskin, cutting the cost in half or so to make it more user-friendly during a fight.

Why the worry about stoneskin as Sch? The cast is slow enough that you'll struggle to get both stacked up mid encounter without one getting wiped off in the process, beyond simply prebuffing for an encounter theres very little reason to want to cast it. It's a whm ability for the same reason that Sch have Whispering Dawn.

[alhandra]

i main a scholar, and i can kind of understand where you are coming from. but dont forget about your other ways of mitigating dmg as well. eye for an eye and virus are much more effective in the hands of a scholar because of the enhanced versions that whm's cant get. also i still use stoneskin frequently on my tanks when possible along with adlo, especially in solo heal or solo tank situations.

for instance when im solo healing garuda extreme on my scholar when i am expecting a double wicked wheel i will try to lay down an adlo + stoneskin + either virus or sacred soil depending on what is on cool down... this provides ample damage mitigation. and unless that tank happened to eat an unlucky slipstream right before the ww he is going to be relatively safe until surprana dies.

of course the ability to solo heal anything is completely dependent on the party's ability to mitigate its own damage thru cool downs and dodging =D