Full i90 PLD should not get gibbed by Twintania from full HP.

[Pooky_Pasha]

Actually the other guy was attacking your comment, I was agreeing with him, you didn't "prove" anything about Adlo.

Ok, let's put it this way:

SCH casts 700 Adlo on PLD. That same Adlo hits a WAR for 700x1.2=840. For every 1 point of damage negated by the Adlo on WAR, the same Adlo would negate .8 points of damage on a PLD. Once the WAR has taken his full 840 points of damage, the PLD would have taken 840x.8=672 points of damage. The PLD is left with a 700-672=28 Adlo shield. This means the shield effect on the PLD is (28/700)=.04 more effective!

The shield effect of Adlo is 4% more effective on a PLD than WAR!

Also note that a PLD receives +25% effective healing received. Assuming no over-curing is done, the PLD is effectively cured for 700x1.25=875 vs the WARs cure for 840. In this case, the PLDs cure is effectively (875-840)/875=.04 better. In other words:

The cure portion of Adlo is also 4% more effective on a PLD than WAR! (Which subsequently means ALL cures, except Lustrate which is the same effectiveness for both, are 4% more effective on a PLD than a WAR!)

Thanks for your intelligent post. While I think you see Warrior's arguing Adloq is better for PLD, none of us (as far as I am aware) are seeing this as some sort of *bad* thing that needs to be addressed. I and a few others here are just correcting the babble of the person claiming Warrior superiority on the issue, which is mathematically proven false by people like you and me. Since 2.1, Warrior and Paladin have been in a great spot of near equality. I always try to have one of each in my parties.

You're welcome! Thank you for understanding the basic mechanics behind WAR and PLD, which is what this has somehow devolved into. I could care less about the original post, but when people start showing a complete lack of understanding of basic mechanics and start defending their stances based on bad numbers and bad math, it gets frustrating to say the least. The worst arguments I hear is "WARs have more hit points=better tanks!" or "WARs get cured for more=better!" which is just a case of ignorance on basic mechanics. Even the OP did that!

And it happened to me 2 times today. I was topped off, food buff, 7043 hp 600 parry, Allagan shield.

Death sentence > plummet > auto attack all in less than .5 seconds dead.

And warriors don't even have to worry about it, 8700 hpololol

And I agree, the balance they have is scary good right now. And any party that doesn't have one of each is just gimping itself I think.

[SpookyGhost]

1% healing difference. Both tanks can tackle all content and in 8m it's better to have 1 of each than 2x PLD/WAR. Can we move on?

Apparently not!

[NoctisUmbra]

The thread title is Death Sentences. Block rate is not garaunteed. If a warrior prebuffs IB on them, it is 100% mitigation vs a PLDs ~27% block rate.

Sure. If we're talking mitigation buffs, a PLD can use Rampart. It can also use Sentinel. I mean, since we're talking popping defensive cooldowns before an attack.

Again, you want to talk about WAR being better for Twinatnia's DS now. Putting aside that that s a very isolated and content specific comparison but you're also getting into debates about WAR being overall better than PLD throughout this thread and making silly statements suggesting Adlo or SS scales better on WAR when it doesn't, or that PLD has no self heals. For someone suggesting people have ADHD, your statements are all over the place and inconsistent.


Going back to Death Sentence - WAR can make sure he has IB for every Death Sentence, which is nice. PLD will run out of cooldowns if the party does not make use of having the MT avoid DS by going into conflags, etc. Regardless, let's say WAR is better with mitigating more Death Sentences due to IB being on GCD and there being enough time to regain Infuriated status. On the flip side, DS places Infirmity which weakens received heals a great deal. PLD is slightly more efficient in receiving heals, which is a point for PLD in that case.

I SS every Death Sentence...

The "Wow" comment I made, was more like a "duh".

You're in no position to say "duh" unless as a means of conceding you made a mistake since you suggested in two separate instances before that "PLD has no self heals".

[Thorauku]

Considering I put in over 30 hours last week perfecting my Twintania strat, YEP. Thanks. Sorry I am not one of those (lets try Twintania for 3 whole hours this week) kind of person.

Awesome! You suddenly own a Twintania strat?

I'd love to see your kill for this week as well mate.

[chococo]

Ok, let's put it this way:

SCH casts 700 Adlo on PLD. That same Adlo hits a WAR for 700x1.2=840. For every 1 point of damage negated by the Adlo on WAR, the same Adlo would negate .8 points of damage on a PLD. Once the WAR has taken his full 840 points of damage, the PLD would have taken 840x.8=672 points of damage. The PLD is left with a 700-672=28 Adlo shield. This means the shield effect on the PLD is (28/700)=.04 more effective!

The shield effect of Adlo is 4% more effective on a PLD than WAR!

Also note that a PLD receives +25% effective healing received. Assuming no over-curing is done, the PLD is effectively cured for 700x1.25=875 vs the WARs cure for 840. In this case, the PLDs cure is effectively (875-840)/875=.04 better. In other words:

The cure portion of Adlo is also 4% more effective on a PLD than WAR! (Which subsequently means ALL cures, except Lustrate which is the same effectiveness for both, are 4% more effective on a PLD than a WAR!)

Wait, where does he 0.8 come from?

Anyway, this isn't quite a valid comparison as the contribution from shield oath (dmg -25%) will outweigh the dmg mitigated by adlo.
{dmg - 25% - adlo} will always have a greater effect than {dmg - 1.2*adlo} in terms of overall dmg mitigated (unless it's a really weak attack)
WAR makes up for this difference with the HP pool they have.

[NoctisUmbra]

Wait, where does he 0.8 come from?

The 0.8 comes from the PLD having 20% damage mitigation constantly on with Shield Oath. What does 1000 damage to a WAR will do 800 damage to a PLD with Shield Oath.

The reason Adlo is more effective on PLD is due to it being a heal. It's the same reason any heals (sans Lustrate) is more effective on PLD - because although WAR has +25% HP to make their eHP equivalent to PLD, it only gets +20% to incoming heals to go with it instead of +25%, making it so the effective HP healed is not the same. Therefore, although the difference isn't much (I went into sufficient detail a page or so back regarding this) it does exist.

[Gamemako]

Please stop feeding the troll. I know he looks hungry, but he bites, and may also have rabies.

[Vampyren]

SCH casts 700 Adlo on PLD. That same Adlo hits a WAR for 700x1.2=840. For every 1 point of damage negated by the Adlo on WAR, the same Adlo would negate .8 points of damage on a PLD. Once the WAR has taken his full 840 points of damage, the PLD would have taken 840x.8=672 points of damage. The PLD is left with a 700-672=28 Adlo shield. This means the shield effect on the PLD is (28/700)=.04 more effective!

In terms of effective HP, the values are slightly different:

-Base HP of WAR with just iLv 90 weapon equipped (without Defiance) is at 3560HP.
-Base HP of PLD with iLv 90 sword and shield equipped only is at 3475HP.
(Hyur Highlander)

Immediately, you can see that there is a 85HP discrepancy without buffs. The HP discrepancy persists even when equipping gear provided that the gear in question is held constant, i.e. equipping identical gear on both classes. This further closes the gap of Adloq effectiveness between WAR and PLD.


Using a similar format seen on page 17 from NoctisUmbra's post for easy comparison:

Adloq gives 500HP shield, 600 for WAR.

-WAR with 3560 base HP > 5050 eHP with Defiance and Adloq.
-PLD with 3475 base HP > 3975 eHP with Adloq.

An attack hits for an arbitrary 4000 dmg. PLD takes 3200 dmg from shield oath damage reduction factored in.

-WAR is down to 1050/4450 HP (76.40% of max HP lost)
-PLD is down to 775/3475 HP (77.70% of max HP lost)

Obviously, this was done naked with only iLv90 weapon and shield equipped. So let's look at some more reasonable values:

(again arbitrary numbers but with the HP discrepancy factored in)
-WAR has 6885HP with gear
-PLD has 6800HP with gear

This time, let's say Adloq hit for 700HP, and Death Sentence hit for 6000dmg.

-WAR now has 9446 eHP with Defiance and Adloq.
-PLD now has 7500 eHP with Adloq.

Death Sentence hits!

-WAR down to 3446/8606 HP (59.96% HP loss)
-PLD down to 2700/6800 HP (60.29% HP loss)

The above is a fairly likely scenario during Twintania fight. But what if Adloq crits?
In this scenario, Adloq crits and let's say it applies a 1500HP shield with Death Sentence still hitting for 6000 damage unmitigated. using the same method as above:

-WAR eHP 10406
-PLD eHP 8300

Death Sentence hits!

-WAR 4406/8606 HP (48.80% HP loss)
-PLD 3500/6800 HP (48.53% HP loss)

In reality, the adloq crit shields are worth bit more than 1500HP, more in the region of 2000HP and this will further increase the difference in HP loss slightly in favour of PLD.

Conclusion
So from my tests, the shield for PLD is not 4% better than WAR! in fact, it changes depending on how much incoming damage you're about to receive and how much Adloq heals for. Both classes are very balanced in terms of Adloq mitigation - it seems that if Adloq crits (or if you can get a Adloq shield to reach that high without critting), it better serves PLD. But with non-crit, it is slightly worse. In any case, the differences are so marginal that it's not even worth fretting about. Of course we are strictly talking about the shield portion of Adloq but if you factor in the fact that eHP healed on PLD is slightly better than WAR, they are pretty darn well balanced! Good job devs!

tl;dr Adloq is balanced between both WAR and PLD.

P.S. Sorry for this bad formatting, I don't post on forums much.

[Pesmergia]

Awesome! You suddenly own a Twintania strat?

I'd love to see your kill for this week as well mate.

Here it is.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-blade-finally.

Bye.

[Thorauku]

Here it is.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...-blade-finally.

Bye.

Congratulations.