Ezorean Pride Parade (open to all)

[Kazahashi]

Kallera, I stopped reading at your last post when you compared cosmetic things like "beards" and "freckles" to someone's sexuality. Which, if I was gay, would find pretty freakin' insulting, to say the least. So yeah....again, there's plenty of the LGBT crowd that have spoken against this "movement" that's going on....and again, I guess their opinions don't count, because they disagree with it and we only need to listen to the victims that are being torn down by the evil SE for not incorporating things into a video game so everyone can have warm fuzzies, about a video game.

[Mooshywooshy]

Slippery slope.
Everyone is right.
Everyone is wrong.

I do have an honest question though:
Why is it so easy to side with SquareEnix as opposed to siding with a fellow player? (Granted you support LGBT)
I mean the big issue here is ultimately =InGameMarriage right? (Valentines was a non-issue. I sold my 2 extra man chocolates on AH for 7x the gil of 1 chick chocolate and gave an AH bought chick chocolate to my friend)
I know you understand the whole stance of SE as a company and so forth, but why does that in turn cause you to go against your in game peers as opposed to supporting them?
Do you feel there is something to lose by supporting them?

[Kallera]

Kallera, I stopped reading at your last post when you compared cosmetic things like "beards" and "freckles" to someone's sexuality. Which, if I was gay, would find pretty freakin' insulting, to say the least. So yeah....again, there's plenty of the LGBT crowd that have spoken against this "movement" that's going on....and again, I guess their opinions don't count, because they disagree with it and we only need to listen to the victims that are being torn down by the evil SE for not incorporating things into a video game so everyone can have warm fuzzies, about a video game.

People play all sorts of characters in a video game other than themselves.

I don't see why that means a social issue from the community needs to continued to be toyed around back and forth by the devs in various events, except for times like these, then its all "hush hush, nothing's wrong".

[Kazahashi]

Not at all. I honestly would rather have no in game marriage at all then SE not put it in in full force, because of all the....opinions....all over the forums, and the amount of topics that will be created in the span of 24 hours about it. WoW and other games do it right by not tackling in game sexuality, and rightly so. However, I side with SE, because it's THEIR game. They can put whatever they want in it, and we don't have to like it. End of story.

If SE comes out and says "We're doing gay weddings people, Eorzea was written to recognize gay and bisexual relationships", then I would side with it, and continue on my way, now granted I wouldn't take part in them, but that's my choice. But again, this is a forum, and because of such, I am stating my opinion on the matter, as others have done. When we do though, we get insulted, called names, and get made to feel like if we disagree we MUST hate gay people, because there's no other explanation to it! Or we're anti-community, anti-social, anti-human rights, there's always something. Being labelled is the same across the board, it's just as rude and unfair as bashing the other side of the fence, but it's ok, because straight people are allowed to get demolished. It's cool. Look at everytime one of the LGBT crowd is against this movement....who responds to them? NO ONE.

Social issues like this don't need to exist, it's a game. The community makes them exist, not SE, and they don't have to toy with anything, it's their game. They wrote it, they developed it, they choose what goes in and what doesn't. We are consumers, and we vote with our wallets whether or not we like or dislike the content of said game. Now honestly, not to insult anyone, literally, but there's not going to be a "mass quitting" if gay marriage isn't put into the game, that much, I can almost guarantee. Because others, like I said I would do, will continue on their way, and enjoy the game they're paying to play. Keyword there, play. There is no "hush hush" scenario here, the devs simply aren't going to put the content in, otherwise they would state they were, because this would be such a huge issue, that they would face backlash otherwise.

[Zell1226]

Remember that part in the story where your sexuality mattered?

Yeah, me neither.

[Mhaeric]

Again, watch what happens if someone makes a "straights only" FC, or starts similar parades....I'm going to keep this quote, cause it applies to that too. And when you say "Oh they just hate gay people", I'm going to remember this quote and use it....cause it's hypocritical for anyone that supports this to say otherwise of the opposite side of the fence then.

First of all, a straights only FC is clearly bigoted. Your implication is also that LGBT FCs are LGBT only. I dare you to find a FC that is LGBT only. I won't bother waiting for you to get back to me, since I know you won't find one.

Secondly, the reason why 'straight pride' is a bigoted concept is because being straight is not something that needs acceptance or understanding. You already have that. Having an event to celebrate your heterosexuality is at best rubbing your privilege in the noses of those who don't have it. At worst it is malicious in the same way that the concept of 'white power' is malicious.

As for an event itself, the question that needs to be asked is, "Why?" Why would you want a parade? For a gay pride parade, one aspect is achieving acceptance and equality. It is saying we are here to the rest of the world in an attempt to erase our invisibility. And while things are better than they were even 10 years ago, they are not anywhere near to being equal. Another aspect is spending time with supportive people (of any sexuality) in an environment where you don't have to worry about being harassed. Both of those things are something that straight people take for granted, and you certainly don't need a day or event in order to achieve them. The phrase, 'Every day is straight pride day' sums this up nicely. Note that these same aspects apply to why groups and communities like LGBT free companies exist.

So if acceptance and support are not reasons why someone would want a straight parade, then what other reason might there be? The only reason I can think of is to either make the claim that straight people are 'better than,' or out of spite because your privilege isn't being catered to.

As for the various statements made throughout this thread that gay FCs and pride events shouldn't exist in game, or that we should stop talking about sexuality and bringing 'real life' into a game... that is completely ridiculous. So called 'real life' includes this game. I am a gay person whether I am playing the game or not, and the game is part of my life. I should not be expected to turn off any part of my being or be treated unequally in any aspect of my life regardless of what that is, a game included. If I want to reference my boyfriend, I should be able to. If I want to organize and advertise a LGBT-themed event in game, I should be able to. If I want to discuss ways the company could improve the game in ways specific to LGBT people, I should be able to.

Gaming is behind the curve on this one, since we're still at the point where even attempting to discuss the issue is mostly met with, "Sit down and shut up" statements such as 'this doesn't belong in a game,' 'stop flaunting your sexuality,' 'I'm sick of people talking about sexuality in a game,' and so on.

[Kazahashi]

You sir, are a shining example of why a lot of the LGBT crowd is staying as far away from this topic as possible....holy crap. I have seen two LGBT onry FC's in the game so far, and one that said they might accept straight people because "it's fun for everyone to hang out, gay people are hilarious!"....seriously.....yeah....being gay is now a source of comedy. I thought the 90's were behind us. Sexuality isn't funny, it's someone's sexuality. And since I'm such a bigot, then I wouldn't have talked to the leader of that FC and told him he was wrong for using his sexuality, and that of his members as a comedy recruitment tool would I? Sure wouldn't, but I did.

I would also caution you to read more of my posts then just the ones you choose to fire back on, specifically the last one I mentioned. I'm making actual intelligent thoughts, there's no reason to cast them aside like I'm a "bigot"....which is another awesome insult towards someone that disagrees, when I didn't call anyone ANYTHING.

More and more of the entire nation, and more and more of the world is starting to support gay rights and gay marriage, instead of celebrating this and being happy, you're finding some reason to complain and be angry....which is another point. It doesn't matter what you give ANYONE, not just the LGBT crowd, people, in general, will always find a reason to want more or find fault with, anything.

By the way, I could dismantle your entire post with one single thing. How many single player FF games, and games in general (aside from Bioware games), really give a crap what your real life sexuality is and caters to it? I thought so. And if there's a gay character in my single player games, I assume then, that I am allowed to express my utter disappointment with it on the internet too, since apparently that's ok to do. No, I accept there's a gay character, I move on, cause it's cool, it's no big deal. So that whole thing about "games are real life cause I play them and I'm real"....yeah ok. Keep on with the anger though, you're making a good case for your cause with it.

Gaming doesn't have to be "ahead of the curve". It's gaming, it's a hobby, it's not even viewed as art (depending on who you speak to). ie, it's not film. Is mountain biking ahead of the curve? Diving? Hunting? How about any other hobby? Hobbies are hobbies, people just need to be accepting of everyone so people can enjoy it together and get along without bashing. Now, if it's professional, that's an ENTIRELY different subject. Like pro hunting, gaming, etc. And that's not about the games, that's about the treatment of the pros that are a member of the LGBT crowd. Game creators don't have to be "edgy" or "ahead of the curve" if they don't want to be. I sure as hell wouldn't want you coming into my stories I write being like "he needs to be gay or else"....no sorry, I'd tell you to get out of my face rather fast. Because it's my creation, in the same way I wouldn't go to a Yaoi mangaka and be like "So, if you don't make this guy straight, I'm going to scream and yell for months on your forum!"....that's just stupid.

[Milmoko_Gemoko]

If anyone cares I updated the time/date in the original post.
Wednesday 12th February at 20:00GMT - Ul'Dah the Quicksand.

Also im really wishing I hadn't even started this thread now, all I hoped for was a few like minded people to join me for a daft walk not this endless fighting or the dreaded marriage issue to come up. Kinda had a rough few weeks and had experienced some gay bashing recently and hoped this would cheer me up but nvm.
Honestly it was just a fun idea at the time not some statement or movement :/

[Kazahashi]

Milmoko, don't beat yourself up buddy. I'm not directing this at YOU, as a person, player, member of the LGBT community, nothing. I just stated my opinion on the event, and I'm carried away into debate land with other people. Lol. Keep on goin pal, I hope you have fun, at the very least, with what you're doing, regardless of differing opinions. And I apologize if this debate I've been having for over an hour now, as brought you down. Truly. I would take the debate elsewhere, but creating a debate topic just means deletion in .2 seconds.

As for the gay bashing man, just give them the bird and keep truckin pal. Bashing is the lowest form of human drivel. Going out of your way to grief someone because of their sexuality is inane, even if you disagree with it. It's one thing to disagree, it's another to blast it like you're the next savior of the human race. People like that don't deserve the attention they get from bringing you down. Get up pal, dust off those shoulders, and keep your head high.

[Zell1226]

Gaming is behind the curve on this one, since we're still at the point where even attempting to discuss the issue is mostly met with, "Sit down and shut up" statements such as 'this doesn't belong in a game,' 'stop flaunting your sexuality,' 'I'm sick of people talking about sexuality in a game,' and so on.

Because it DOESN'T belong in a game. I have gay friends aplenty that bring up this issue to me and say they're even annoyed by this silly movement created by needy people such as yourself. Video games are made akin to an artists direction. If they make it the way they want to, you have to deal with it. That's art for you. You can hate it, but that's the way they want it. That's like being mad that Jack wasn't gay in the Titanic because that's "not equal" enough for you. It's not YOUR story to begin with.