Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

[VydarrTyr]

- People would have to re-do all their macros. Which is not just a hassle, but impossible for players with several jobs at max level, because there simply is no macro space left to accomodate all the gearswaps, ability settings and different battle-macros. Counter argument: Since both abilities and gear scale down to your level anyway, you don't need to make any more macros.

This Counter-Argument is just false.

Weapons do not scale. Abilities do not scale. Gear and weapons degrade significantly faster; that's not scaled.

Right now, my Marauder macro includes abilities like Disorient II, Maim, Storm's Path, Defender II, Fracture II, Brandish II, and Bloodbath II. Those are all abilities you can't use at level 30. Those don't scale down to my level. You simply wouldn't be able to equip them on a r30 character. Go ahead; try equipping them on a r30 Marauder. They won't equip.

So you would need to make more macros. Because the old macros wouldn't work. If you use your old macros, you're going to have lots of blank spaces on your abilities bar, you're going to have gimped weapons, and you better be carrying lots of repair mats because you're going to need to repair all your gear and weapons halfway through the dungeon.

[MeowyWowie]

This Counter-Argument is just false.

Weapons do not scale. Abilities do not scale. Gear and weapons degrade significantly faster; that's not scaled.

Right now, my Marauder macro includes abilities like Disorient II, Maim, Storm's Path, Defender II, Fracture II, Brandish II, and Bloodbath II. Those are all abilities you can't use at level 30. Those don't scale down to my level. You simply wouldn't be able to equip them on a r30 character. Go ahead; try equipping them on a r30 Marauder. They won't equip.

So you would need to make more macros. Because the old macros wouldn't work. If you use your old macros, you're going to have lots of blank spaces on your abilities bar, you're going to have gimped weapons, and you better be carrying lots of repair mats because you're going to need to repair all your gear and weapons halfway through the dungeon.

Of course you can't equip any of those on a R30 MRD. YOU HAVE TO LEARN THEM FIRST. You CAN however equip ALL of those abilities on any other of DoM or DoW at rank 1 once you've learned them. If SE didn't scale down ability points with everything else, there would be 0 problems. That would be the best design because you'd have a slight advantage by entering as a capped R50 but not godlike, and you wouldn't have to worry about any macros or abilities.

Also, the only equipment that wears excessively fast if you're under its optimal level is weapons and tools. Worst case scenario, you'd have to carry one extra weapon for capped content and mats to repair them. Though, that's hardly a deterrent to capped content if you ask me.

[VydarrTyr]

Of course you can't equip any of those on a R30 MRD. YOU HAVE TO LEARN THEM FIRST. You CAN however equip ALL of those abilities on any other of DoM or DoW at rank 1 once you've learned them. If SE didn't scale down ability points with everything else, there would be 0 problems. That would be the best design because you'd have a slight advantage by entering as a capped R50 but not godlike, and you wouldn't have to worry about any macros or abilities.

So you're suggesting that, if I take my 50 Mar into a capped dungeon, I can equip all my Marauder abilities above level 30? And I can have the same number of action points and traits as if I was r50? So the only thing that would be de-leveled is my HP and MP?

I think you're suggesting something different than what others are suggesting. I'm not saying I'm against it, I'm just saying that it's a different argument, and it further complicates the design and coding issues, meaning it's going to take more time to develop.

Also, the only equipment that wears excessively fast if you're under its optimal level is weapons and tools.

This is incorrect. Gear also degrades at an increased rate.

[Chinook]

Well, we agree to disagree.

The point was to get dev attention that working several months to create a uncapped dungeon that have high chance to not be fun + challenging + replayable + long-term rewarding is unproductive.

That goal is prolly achieved, and I hope they think twice before creating future content.

Thanks for the feedback and discussion, see you in Toto-Rak !

[Rinsui]

Please allow me to bump my own thread.
Because time flows like a river and history repeats,
as do forum discussions.

[Betelgeuzah]

I don't see a need to even argue this. If the developers know their shit, they know what to do.

And if they don't, it didn't even matter in the first place.

So far so bad.

[Rinsui]

I don't see a need to even argue this. If the developers know their shit, they know what to do.

And if they don't, it didn't even matter in the first place.

So far so bad.

...

So you still support the old development team or what? O.o/

[Tsukino]

I don't know if anyone's brought this up before or not (I realize this is an old thread), but I would prefer a kind of voluntary cap system.

I never really liked that forced level caps in FFXI sort of undid the entire point of leveling in an RPG system. When you grind out levels in a game it's not just to "be" a higher level but to be able to do more things, and do old things more easily. This is not just for MMOs but all RPGs with level systems. When you cap everything worth doing, then you get no sense of growth, no fun from being able to go back and stomp all over things that gave you a headache before.

That said, I do get disappointed when I "miss" certain challenges due to leveling past them or in the case of MMOs being higher level when they get released. I would like the ability to lower my level and experience the challenge as it was intended, at least once, and that's why I would like a voluntary cap at the start.

I actually have no strong feelings one way or the other about "maintaining balance."