Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

[Rinsui]

-Level caped items will always have a market even in a legacy server where characters are all higher levels.

That's already in the list ^.^/

[Gun_Anam]

I'm gonna copy my quote from the other thread in support of uncapped dungeons.
Capping dungeons removes any sense of character progression in regards to the dungeon.

It's the whole surplus argument all over again and how it's presented, except in this instance you're asking for surplus instead of bonus SP. Dungeons SHOULD be easier the higher rank you are. That's how MMO levelling systems should work. A R50 should NOT have the same difficulty completing a R30 dungeon as a R30. People rank up their characters so they they're stronger and if you rank up and you're still the same strength in the dungeon then you haven't progressed your character at all. Where's the sense of progression if you're always going to be held back to the strength of a R30?

Give us a dungeon difficulty option the same as leves. People can then see their character progression as they move up the stars without the dungeon being any easier, unless of course they choose to leave it on the lower star difficulty.

Honestly, having new players do the dungeon at R30 and finding it challenging is good. Having them hit R31 and thinking they're stronger now and it should be slightly easier only to find they're being gimped back down a rank is very demoralizing. It's a very bad precedent to set.

[Jinko]

I am pro capped, I have nothing more to add.

These forums really do need the function to make polls, come on Community Reps :P

[Rentahamster]

I'm gonna copy my quote from the other thread in support of uncapped dungeons.
Capping dungeons removes any sense of character progression in regards to the dungeon.

Squishing weak mobs with your high rank classes is what overworld mob fights are for, not specially designed dungeons that are eligible to reward really good item drops.

[Richard]

I'm gonna copy my quote from the other thread in support of uncapped dungeons.
Capping dungeons removes any sense of character progression in regards to the dungeon.

progression in content is based on completion and obtaining all the gear. are you saying that if you were able to be capped at the dungeon level that you wouldn't be able to complete it or get all the gear?

progression in mmorpgs is not based on being a higher level that the content you run.

[Rinsui]

I'm gonna copy my quote from the other thread in support of uncapped dungeons.
Capping dungeons removes any sense of character progression in regards to the dungeon.

Noted and included.

[Gun_Anam]

progression in content is based on completion and obtaining all the gear. are you saying that if you were able to be capped at the dungeon level that you wouldn't be able to complete it or get all the gear?

Sorry, perhaps I was unclear. My arguement had nothing to do with content progression.

Character Progression is about seeing your character grow in strength & ability. Acquiring gear isn't character progression, it's only progression with your personal collection of gear. Completing story quests isn't character progression as it's only progressing the story and not any improvement to the character.

[Rentahamster]

Since the counterarguments are "none so far", I guess I'll put some in.

- It should be up to the players whether they want to be being helped through a dungeon by appropriate-leveled friends, or cheated through it by high level players.
Counter argument: That's fine if they want to be cheated through the dungeon by high level players, but if they do so, they should not be eligible to obtain good items and loot from the dungeon. This will maintain the proper risk vs. reward ratio and help to keep game balance.



- People would have to re-do all their macros. Which is not just a hassle, but impossible for players with several jobs at max level, because there simply is no macro space left to accomodate all the gearswaps, ability settings and different battle-macros.
Counter argument: A minor inconvenience, on par with every other inconvenience regarding macros in this game. While it's true that we don't need yet another reason to redo our macro bars, the difference between a rank 25 character and a rank 50 character is only 15 abilities that are going to become disabled. Besides, improvements to the macro system and skill assignment system will be implemented in the future as well, so the issue will be less important as time goes on.


- Capping dungeons removes any sense of character progression. As a LV 50, you *should* be able to blast through a LV 30 dungeon, otherwise your LV 50 would be meaningless.
Counterargument: Like the BCNMs of FF11, raid dungeons are specifically designed for a particular rank range, and should therefore be completed as designed, especially if there are good item rewards on the line. You rank 50 character does not become meaningless because there is still the rank 50 dungeon that is available to run as well. Additionally, if your only desire is to blast through low rank fluff, then you can always do that on the overworld, which will naturally always be uncapped by design.

[Rinsui]

@Rentahamster
Included.

'cept for

Counter argument: A minor inconvenience, on par with every other inconvenience regarding macros in this game. While it's true that we don't need yet another reason to redo our macro bars, the difference between a rank 25 character and a rank 50 character is only 15 abilities that are going to become disabled. Besides, improvements to the macro system and skill assignment system will be implemented in the future as well, so the issue will be less important as time goes on.

Because your argument is based on the assumption that the macro system will (soon) be overhauled. (Sorry, I understand your point, and I also consider it a minor issue. However, what you consider a "minor" inconvenience is an inconvenience nonetheless; as such, it's best included only in the contra block).

@Jinko
There is a poll somewhere in the general forum. The problem was just that, like, 80% of the voters didn't even understand what "cap" in the FFXI sense means.

[Rentahamster]

Because your argument is based on the assumption that the macro system will (soon) be overhauled.

That was just a side point, since there are no plans in the short term, but the devs have stated that this is a goal of theirs. The main point point was that the difference between rank 25 and rank 50 is the disappearance of only 15 skills, which are not all used anyway (depending on class. It would be more inconvenient for mages, for example). Compared to the problems that the macro system have already, the disruption caused by a delevel-sync really isn't that bad.