Compilation: Capped Dungeons, pro and contra arguments

[TheVedis]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction would claim that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too. Which, up to this point, they didn't.

no, 11 is still another game

this is not final fantasy 11
this is not wow
this is not aion
this is not(insert game here)

either all games are included in comparison, or all games are excluded


also, several of your pro people have stated they had it in 11 therefore it should be here, where do you think half their comparisons are coming from? about the glory days of cop, they want it to be JUST LIKE 11.

[Rentahamster]

also, several of your pro people have stated they had it in 11 therefore it should be here

In Final Fantasy 11, you can be every possible job on the same character.

In Final Fantasy 14, you can be every possible job on the same character.

That is one of the main reasons why they capped certain content in FF11, and therefore, it is one of the main reasons why we need to cap content in FF14 as well. I'd say the FF11 comparisons are very valid in this particular case.

[TheVedis]

In Final Fantasy 11, you can be every possible job on the same character.

In Final Fantasy 14, you can be every possible job on the same character.

That is one of the main reasons why they capped certain content in FF11, and therefore, it is one of the main reasons why we need to cap content in FF14 as well. I'd say the FF11 comparisons are very valid in this particular case.

and so is comparing it to other games

as i said, 11 is not 14, therefore, you can not state that it has to be an exception

every other game can be compared too as they are all different MMOs then 14

[Rentahamster]

and so is comparing it to other games

as i said, 11 is not 14, therefore, you can not state that it has to be an exception

every other game can be compared too as they are all different MMOs then 14

In WoW, you cannot be every single class on the same character. Neither can you do that in Rift, Guild Wars, Diablo, AoC, or pretty much anything else.

For this particular issue, FF14 shares most in common with FF11, therefore we need to examine why certain measures (like a level cap) were necessary in FF11 and then apply it to this game if it makes sense.

[Reika]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction would claim that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too. Which, up to this point, they didn't.

They haven't yet anyways.... But there have been plenty of other such comments in other areas of the forums.

Being capped here would be different than the caps that were in FFXI. simply because you can still use the equipment you always use even if your rank scales down. If it were level required equipment instead of optimal level equipment, it would be a different story. and then caps would be something I wouldn't want because I like many others don't have the inventory space to carry around a bunch of low level equipment.

[Krausus]

Well, Vedis, FFXI did something different than most other MMOs, and in this context it serves as an example that a feature can work. The only problem I see is when the pro-faction claims that because feature X was in 11, it has to be in 14, too (which, up to this point, I think they didn't).



Hmm. I *think* the contra-faction claims that low-level gear and dungeons are (and should be) meaningless for a high level player anyway. Instead, for high level players (and, in extension, their low-level friends) the whole game challenge should focus on end-game, with mid-level content just being a transitory (and, with enough outside help: skippable) phase on the way to the top. So while some people want the whole game to be challenging, with no way to "cheat" your way to victory, others insist that the only real challenge should be endgame anyway.

Krausus, did I understand this right?

Btw:

In principle, something similar war attempted in FFXI with capped Balistas. So it's not completely ridiculous. A bad example, though, because Balistas died out pretty fast. A better example would be, perhaps, Vampiric Claws, obtainable only from a capped CoP area in FFXI. At least on my server, they were considered *pretty* cool, just because everybody knew about the hassle to obtain them. But that's only one example which doesn't really prove anything.

Not necessarily, personally I want there to be all levels of content not just an adjusted dungeon that allows all ranks to participate in at a set level. Why make a rank 35 40 45 or even 50 have to do a rank 25/30 dungeon to participate in content why not focus on creating a rank 35 40 50 dungeons? I think we all see how long it takes SE to implement something. But now that they have the combat system nearing completion I think they will be able to add more dungeons in a more timely manner. I would rather that then them focus on making the rank 25/30 dungeon the main focus outside of 45+.

I just really do not like limitations it upsets me to see FFXIV devolve into another clone of what is already available, why take away more options. I thought FFXIV would break the mold, releasing to early and the droves of the vocal screaming for another FFXI or WoW has completely ruined all chances for that. FFXIV is no longer the next best thing its just turning into another standard MMO to throw on the pile.

[Rentahamster]

Not necessarily, personally I want there to be all levels of content not just an adjusted dungeon that allows all ranks to participate in at a set level. Why make a rank 35 40 45 or even 50 have to do a rank 25/30 dungeon to participate in content why not focus on creating a rank 35 40 50 dungeons?

They can never create enough new content fast enough to please everyone. This is the problem that a lot of other MMOs fall victim to.

Therefore, it is prudent to keep even lower rank content challenging so that it doesn't get old too fast.

[RabidSquirrel]

Here's my problem (Which might have already been state, who knows):

Let's say you are just some rank 50 dude looking for a rank 30 piece of equipment just to use while leveling another class. You need to drag three other people along just to get it, and as a result, powering them through the dungeon. If you've ever played any other MMOs with uncapped dungeons like this one, lower level people will always be up for a high level dude mowing everything down. The one thing that keeps this system in check, however, is the fact that the high level dude would have to go out of his way to bring some people along, which most don't care to do. Well, that and most MMOs drop bind on pick up equipment anyways, and don't allow for multi-class characters. Unless that high level dude is a friend of yours, he most likely won't go out of his way to find lowbies to tag along. He'd much rather just go through it on his own time, when he wants to.

If there were no restrictions on minimum party size, I'd say keep the instances uncapped. But since they do have a minimum requirement, you might as well cap them. This is just some weird "middle of the road" system that I think should be changed in some way. I'd prefer an unrestricted party count over a level cap, to be honest. But I'd be fine with either.

[Rinsui]

and so is comparing it to other games

as i said, 11 is not 14, therefore, you can not state that it has to be an exception

every other game can be compared too as they are all different MMOs then 14

TheVedis,
what I *think* Rentahamster is trying to say is that there's a very important difference between the game environments of FFXIV/XI and other games that has to be taken into consideration. Other MMOs with a different system, in her opinion, do not need caps because it is not possible to abuse uncapped content in those games anyway (because you can't switch jobs).

Arrgh. And she beat me to it.
I'm slow -.-/

@RabidSquirrel
More-or-less covered already. But thanks anyway.

[Engineer]

I think it doesn't make sense that the dungeons are uncapped and you need a certain amount of people to enter. a lvl 50 cannot enter a level 25 dungeon unless 3 more players come.

My suggestion is alow the up to one player to enter , and have both capped and uncapped options, this will make everyone happy..

The biggest problem for me is waiting for players... I had enough waiting playing ffxi