Common Courtesy with End-game Raids/Dungeons

[Doo]

That's great. I already figured the content out. As a tank, why should I die repeatedly just to help someone else learn?

Because spending hours of your time to help someone that you'll probably never meet again is some how the right thing to do. So instead of actually trying to beat content, you end up as a trainer.

I'm not going to spend time in the game, only to spend more doing homework on it later. Killed Titan and Caduceus without videos, because my FC isn't full of elitists that expect everyone to know everything for the sake of a quick run.

That's because it benefits your fc to train you to do content. You being more geared and all helps your fc be better. I'm sure if you guys df content together you wouldn't be explaining fights to newbies over and over again.

[Nysneirdre]

Some people are able to learn and adapt fairly quickly. I have no problem trying to give a hand to these people. There are a lot of players out there that are just bad and will never drink from the water trough no mater how far you dunk their heads into it.

As another person said, the amount of bad players in this game is staggering. That's to be expected though with the way the game was designed to hold your hand until later into end game.

There is also a difference to going into new content and asking for help, tips, advice, and effectively communicating rather then sneaking into groups silently and praying to get carried. I shouldn't have to play encyclopedia brown trying to figure out if you need help and then spending the next 30 minutes explaining the basics of grouping and being an effective team member. That is the big problem here and why people come to the forums upset.
You guys say don't be a douchebag well I say to you.......

Don't be a douchebag and expect to get carried. Be a damn adult, communicate and ask for help or even take it upon yourself and do some research.

[wildgalax]

i hope this is a joke of a thread.

[Xatsh]

The issue is in this game is the people who are not up to par hardly ask what to do. They just go in and fail constantly and waste everyone elses time. Example Garuda people come in and obviously have no clue about anything on the fight. Do not ask and die repetitively due to not killing feathers or pulling adds or missing spiny.... this is the problems and WE SHOULD NOT BE NICE TO THESE PEOPLE IF THEY DO NOT ASK AND CONSTANTLY SCREWUP OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

I rarely pug anything but when I do I will explain anything if asked. If no one ask and someone just waste my time then I see no reason to not call them out and tell them they are clueless.

This is a throw away content style game... everything is a rush to get done before everything you are doing becomes a waste of time. Sounds horrible but that is the game the devs gave us.

But all in all
People attempting to learn = perfectly fine with and will help.
People attempting to leach = They need to add a "too weak" or "Clueless" reason on the vote to kick

[SpookyGhost]

Yeah - the most annoying thing in the world is when people don't simply ask for advice if they don't know the fight/dungeon.

Example, queued up for high level DR a few days ago and got HM Copperbell. Copperbell is a really easy dungeon and everyone was appropriately geared, but I always ask before we start moving if anyone is new. No one said a word. Nothing. Not even a "Nah, I've done it before." or anything like that. I'm a bit confused why all 3 other people don't want to talk, but I figured I could gauge their knowledge from the trash pulls up to the first boss. They seemed fine, but I realized that everything was pretty straight forward as far as dungeon mechanics go so it was hard to tell if they had actually been there before. Then we got to the first boss which is pretty much a check of "have you done the dungeon before" (it's pretty obvious what to do, but usually the first time you don't realize it until you're dead). So I ask them "Does anyone need this boss explained?" and again I'm met with complete silence. I pull, first bomb goes off, we wipe. I explain we need to kill the bomb, we do, we don't wipe. The bard in the group knew what to do for the 2nd boss so we managed to beat that one, but not without the Dragoon running in front of me multiple times and needing to be raised multiple times. Also, again, nobody said aaaaanything. 3rd boss, Bard fed the worm, DRG built up stun resist on the boss so I couldn't actually stun his big attacks, but we made it through. Also the DRG earned the mapping achievement.

I reaaaally don't think this is okay. There's no shame in being new, I guess everyone has the fear that if they admit they're new they'll get vote kicked, but I'd rather run that risk and know what I'm doing than not ask and cause multiple wipes.

[Zfz]

That's great. I already figured the content out. As a tank, why should I die repeatedly just to help someone else learn?

Um...because this is a game in which you play with other people?

Or make your own groups?

[Amyas]

It doesn't even take a full sentence to explain 90% of bosses in this game.

I just can't. You people are hilarious.

[Amyas]

As a human being playing a massive online multiplayer game, why should I have to deal with random people who may be new to content?

Fixed. Also I'm a tank too. I don't know about you, but when I take people who are new we don't wipe. I wonder why that is...

[Mysteltain]

I avoid watching videos before coming into a new fight, simply because I feel it ruins the fun of actually learning the fight. You can watch a dozen videos, overgear yourself to hell and back, but here's the thing: those videos are generally of perfect fights that are run by FCs. So if you're in a standard PuG then odds are you won't have that perfect run, and things will undoubtedly go wrong.

For example, I set up a Turn 1 group a while back that had two people who had completed it, while the remaining six of us had either never run it before, or had gotten up to Caduceus. I'd say four of us (including myself) knew the gist of the Caduceus fight in Turn 1, while the other two had never set foot in Coil. They both watched videos, but one only watched it for hints and asked the experienced people in our group for tips on what to do, while the other followed the video's strategy verbatim and didn't ask for help because they thought that's how everyone ran it. Needless to say, it took the person who followed the video step-by-step longer to actually get used to the fight. When a mistake happened, they waited for everyone else to explain what went wrong, while the other guy quickly understood how and why he messed up. They couldn't get over the fact that another group's strategy wasn't working for our group.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you're in a group with people new to the fight, be prepared to wipe. Wiping, contrary to some people's belief, is NOT the end of the world. And sometimes it's best to take things slow, as well. Yes, burning through a boss is by far the fastest way, but if you wipe five times doing so then guess what: you just spent longer than if you took your time. Most of us in that run had never fought ADS, and the people who had told us to burn ADS while I (WAR, at the time) held all the Nodes. The first five times I couldn't stay alive holding more than two of the Nodes, and so we kept wiping (didn't help that out BRD was lagging a bit and missed silences). I eventually asked one of the DPS to help me out in killing the Nodes, and guess what? We won on that first try because, even though we got hit with a High Voltage midway through, I was able to survive against the Nodes long enough to keep them from going off and killing everyone else. Yes, that last attempt took all of 30 seconds to one minute longer, but we won, and it would've worked out earlier had we not wanted to rush through it.

[ispano]

-snip-

I'm not going to advocate one way or the other. The problem most people have is that they don't mind teaching people, they just mind teaching near EVERYONE. The other thing is that many of these people see a flaw in you if you refuse to learn from those who came before you. Yes, if you go into DF looking for specific results, you should make your own party. This includes people who want to go in blind. Because either side going into DF expecting everyone else to be ok with it, are just lying to themselves.