Common Courtesy with End-game Raids/Dungeons

[Dracosavarian]

Regardless, the burden is upon those players. If they join a group (you remember we're playing with other players, right?) with this mentality where the group seeks experienced players only, they've violated the agreement upon joining.

If these players would stick to their own communities that would be fine. Most don't. Most want to try to figure things out on their own and think PF is the place to do it in when the run specifies experienced players/players with high end gear...yet this is not the place.

DF doesn't give us an option to separate ourselves from these types of players. Therefore, the best solution to a DF group is to come fully prepared. Sure, you can talk about strategy (but then you aren't really fully prepared..are you?) but that's about it. Everything else should be straight forward.

Yet this is RARELY the case in DF.

DF is the line. Too many of these players cross the line into the PF because they somehow think it will be easier for them.

Ironically you seem to be contradicting yet agreeing with me. Which is it? You are citing almost verbatim my words. My point to you was...don't assume that people are lazy and want to be trail blazers yet without bearing that level of passion simply because they don't want to watch a video. You were essentially putting words in another individuals mouth without even bearing the weight of what may be their thoughts and reasons upon your mind. Something to consider.

In essence, I felt your words were disingenuous and rather assumptive.

It's funny that you mention burdens. Time and time again, I am responsible for bearing the weight of the parties lives upon my shoulders as a Tank. Yet the above is the very cited attitude is what leads to many dying despite my having looked at things and prepared before diving in. Assumptions. Or a will and desire to not explain things so that I can keep people alive. Funny thing that. Tanks have an extraordinary responsibility upon their shoulders. More than DPS ever will. Dps can screw up and no one will notice. But if the tank even slips in the slightest, it is noticed immediately. And boy do we hear about it.

It's fine to set rules and lines in Party Finder. I'm ok with that. It means if i see a party that bears an attitude I don't like, I don't join. Don't care if they need a tank, dps, healer, whatever. I don't care for an attitude of elitism. Eventually those individuals find themselves in a situation where they need someone to help but no one is there because they shut out all of the willing. Falling on their own sword is a rather amusing ideal by any standard for such...odd...desires.

But to expect that out of others in Duty Finder for one's own benefit is a pretty belligerent mindset to bear IMO. I already have to deal with parties impatience and telling me PULL PULL PULL PULL GO GO GO GO GO while another explains to me new boss fights, despite my having watched videos, because, oh...I don't know, I want to make sure that the only face that gets eaten is MINE and not someone elses. And sure enough, I regularly come across things videos do not mention via those players.

To enforce your view, to desire to impress your view upon ANYONE for an individual's own selfish desires is inherently wrong. Yes, I understand that we are playing with other players. But so are you, and the door swings both ways.

As I said. Let DF be the line of demarcation. For those who wish to hold their lofty throne on high and seek out specifics, and be elite, they can set up in party finder. Just like other groups who wish to teach people as i have seen shouted in Mor Dhona for EX primals practice runs can be as well.

But I will always hold the opinion that anyone outright demanding and expecting another to do as they wish, should consider very carefully how oppressive that line of thought is. Because it is.