Common Courtesy with End-game Raids/Dungeons

[Hitome]

I have been told by many people that I am one of the most patient educators they have come across. My field of study isn't even education but engineering.

I will always teach players because that is my nature.

However, I have no tolerance for those individuals (like in this thread) who would inconvenience 7 other players because they didn't use a resource available to them.

You're new and enter a PF group or dungeon telling people that? Great. I know what I need to do and won't look like a know-it-all if I explain strategy.

You're new and enter a PF group or dungeon without telling people that and cause multiple wipes? Especially a group that specifies experienced players only? I will boot you without even blinking.

the age of enjoying MMO is long gone
now the time to enjoy the MMO via study the raid or go watch video requirement, be overgear, prepare to get kick when you mess up and importantly play how other people want you to play,what class they told you so you can help those elitist farm more gear when they using duty finder/duty routlet to recruit random player
and any newbies pls dont use duty routlet/duty finder because you dont want to waste their time teach you raid mechanic because they expect you to be same like them
they cant use party finder/premade group because it too mainstream

remember guys, MMO is a job and not some sort of entertainment now

We are now in the year 2014. Information is readily available to you. Refuse to use it? You get what you put in.

It's like having a student whine to me about failing a test because they didn't study prior to taking the test. No sympathy.

[Kirosuu]

We are now in the year 2014. Information is readily available to you. Refuse to use it? You get what you put in.

It's like having a student whine to me about failing a test because they didn't study prior to taking the test. No sympathy.

yeahhh you not really understand
people like you the one make a MMO feel like a job and from your example too feel like it
where the enjoy?where the fun?
those toxic community will said they got no time to play bec of job or real life so why play MMO in first place?to enjoy or to make it feel like job?

toxic community is the one that make requirement to watch video or get kick, i watch video HM ifrit and i die alot because those strategy not work for me, well thanks to some understanding japanese and random stranger for not give up, now i can do it easily
toxic community the one that use duty routlet/duty finder but get angry to newbies or people watch cutscene + with vote abandon make it worse, i already seen this,newbies get kick when he said new to dungeon
toxic community never try to teach anything to newbies,answer their question or even give suggestion about their gear/class. do you guys ever bother read someone shout ask this and that or even try help random people how to improve their class/job
toxic community cant accept any single mess up and want everyone perfect. this is normal in duty finder now...yeah normal

the biggest thing is, those who depend on watch video mostly unable make plan B in raid. easy example at Atomos in CT which need 4 people on pedestal/switch. what happen is there 4 melee dps?or 1 range 3 melee? 8 out of 10 quit, emo,mad and vote kick

[Hitome]

people like you the one make a MMO feel like a job and from your example too feel like it
where the enjoy?where the fun?
those toxic community will said they got no time to play bec of job or real life so why play MMO in first place?to enjoy or to make it feel like job?

The fun is in accomplishing things with people who share the same mentality I do: put pride into your job and understand you are playing with 7 other players so come best prepared as you can be. When you begin to think that inconveniencing 7 other players is OK, you become the problem.

toxic community is the one that make requirement to watch video or get kick, i watch video HM ifrit and i die alot because those strategy not work for me, well thanks to some understanding japanese and random stranger for not give up, now i can do it easily

Never have I seen someone say "watch a video or get kicked".

toxic community the one that use duty routlet/duty finder but get angry to newbies or people watch cutscene + with vote abandon make it worse, i already seen this,newbies get kick when he said new to dungeon

Already said you should leave learning to DF groups.

toxic community never try to teach anything to newbies,answer their question or even give suggestion about their gear/class. do you guys ever bother read someone shout ask this and that or even try help random people how to improve their class/job
toxic community cant accept any single mess up and want everyone perfect. this is normal in duty finder now...yeah normal

A toxic community is one where a majority of players do not do their research and then complain about fights being too difficult. Toxic and entitled.

the biggest thing is, those who depend on watch video mostly unable make plan B in raid. easy example at Atomos in CT which need 4 people on pedestal/switch. what happen is there 4 melee dps?or 1 range 3 melee? 8 out of 10 quit, emo,mad and vote kick

It's too bad you have no proof of this.

Also, people who watch a video are more prepared than someone going in blind.

yeahhh you not really understand

It's perhaps you that doesn't understand what a MMO is. You are playing with other people. Do your part so everyone else can do theirs.

And how much satisfaction do YOU get when you complete a single player RPG exactly how it's written step by step from a strategy guide and looking up GameFAQs your first time through? ............. If your greatest sense of achievement is from doing that, just try playing a new single player RPG WITHOUT help once.

My gameplay in a single player RPG does not affect 7 other people. Poor analogy but nice try with the fallacious reasoning.

On the topic of watching videos, I've never watched one yet either. I think someone is more likely to absorb feedback and correct mistakes when they don't have a skewed idea of what to expect, let alone if something goes out of order from what you think you "remember" from the video. Not to mention if a fight is explained real-time, anyone can put in THEIR two cents or confirm so that everyone is on the same wavelength and the fight goes smoothly.

K try that when you get to Twin and let me know how it works for you.

I was just in a Thornmarch fight with 3 brand new DPS (never saw the fight before) and 1 new tank. We took 5 minutes to rundown how the fight went and beat it the first time. It was my ONLY win out of about 8 King Mog fights today in DF. Some might say it's not a challenging fight anymore, but why do so many DFs usually fail it then? A little communication goes WAYYYYY further than any video ever will, plus you might even make some new friends.

Oh it's story time is it?

Earlier tonight on my alt, Hito Yu, I was running turn 4 with a PF group that required members to be experienced. Despite the requirement, we discussed strategy extensively before we engaged. I actually told people what to expect, what was coming, how to deal with it, where we should stand, etc.

You'll never guess what happened. The tank had no clue where the first soldier/knight dropped (something you can easily pick up from a video), had no idea the dreadknoughts cleaved (something you could observe from a video), the BLMs had no idea to AoE the double rook phase and when they did AoE, didn't know to sit in the middle because crap runs to you when you pull aggro you know, and no one knew what was coming when a soldier/knight/rook all dropped down on them. It was a complete surprise. After wiping, they asked, "What was that phase? I've never seen it/didn't know how to deal with it." after I had asked them if they knew what to expect on all phases where most of them said, "Of course." or "I've been clearing this for 7 weeks."

Hmm how could someone figure all this out..right: watch a video of the entire fight or read a text-based strategy guide.

This is the only time I've ever wiped on T4 ever since learning it 4 and a half months ago.

Spoken like someone who's never failed in their life. Congratulations on a luxurious upbringing.

Emphasis is not on failure but on people too stubborn to use resources available to them. Thought that post was pretty clear with its point.

[Kirosuu]

snip

so tell, why do those kind of people use df and expect them to be expert?thats the main problem.why cant those kind of people do it?or do you part of those people too?
i understand if using pf but in df?really?

also i put pride or so you call it and do my part and explaining part.spend time to explain save more time than leave them alone, right?
i was a noob like them but cant go to coil just because no experience to join coil. but im not mad. maybe bec my gear so i just grind gear.

[Hitome]

so tell, why do those kind of people use df and expect them to be expert?thats the main problem.why cant those kind of people do it?or do you part of those people too?
i understand if using pf but in df?really?

also i put pride or so you call it and do my part and explaining part.spend time to explain save more time than leave them alone, right?
i was a noob like them but cant go to coil just because no experience to join coil. but im not mad. maybe bec my gear so i just grind gear.

Why join a PF exp group when you don't have the exp? lol Same situation.

DF will always be extremes. You can hide behind anonymity and will never see most of the people there again.

Even with these hindrances, you can still learn quite a lot in DF.

Ok so aftet reading the whole thread, I am now convinced that watching videos & reading guides and stuff allows you to be able to win any content in the game..

After the obvious fact that said videos & guides were made by people going blindly... I have a little and boring question :
Why, after a month of reading and watching, and 2 weeks trying, am I still unable to go past twintania p2 ?

P2? Are you stuck on conflags or stuck on divebombs? Divebombs are the hardest part of the encounter.

Videos will help immensely on conflag, twister/dreadknight, snake burn, and liquid hellx5/egg stage. And I mean immensely. There are quite a few YT videos out right now on tactics for divebombs. There are also widgets that take all the guess work out of it.

Divebombs are something everyone needs to pass or you will most likely fail. Go watch a video. Guarantee you that you will find people saying, "Up up up" when divebombs trigger using voice comm. or mention something when the 2nd set of divebombs are about to hit. You can use macros and cooldowns to track time between the two sets of divebombs too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOA2gm0tE64

Did you learn anything about conflags/divebombs from this? "Everyone together" for fireball/"On us", people calling out names of those who have fireball/conflag. on them, Ruin calling out short conflags., people telling you when they're conflagged, where DPS needs to increase,

Not only that but you get positioning, where she should be tanked, where virus/eye are used for mitigation from party chat, how to deal with snake debuff, when to use LB/cooldowns that people call out, etc

Just so much information in one video that wasn't even meant to be a tutorial.

If people do not want beginners in their group, just CREATE yours with friends and do ALL content together. never again people to waste your time.

The same is true for people joining exp groups with no exp: form your own group. You know they have a "new players welcome" and "until we complete our duty" check mark, right? You can also put, "We're a learning group. Come join us." in your comment. I've seen quite a few of these myself. I'm glad people are using PF this way.

[Kirosuu]

Why join a PF exp group when you don't have the exp? lol Same situation.

DF will always be extremes. You can hide behind anonymity and will never see most of the people there again.

Even with these hindrances, you can still learn quite a lot in DF.

i hate it but i agree
thats why for the purpose of this discussion which only represent minority can make change even a little

[Kuwagami]

P2? Are you stuck on conflags or stuck on divebombs? Divebombs are the hardest part of the encounter.

Videos will help immensely on conflag, twister/dreadknight, snake burn, and liquid hellx5/egg stage. And I mean immensely. There are quite a few YT videos out right now on tactics for divebombs. There are also widgets that take all the guess work out of it.

Divebombs are something everyone needs to pass or you will most likely fail. Go watch a video. Guarantee you that you will find people saying, "Up up up" when divebombs trigger using voice comm. or mention something when the 2nd set of divebombs are about to hit. You can use macros and cooldowns to track time between the two sets of divebombs too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOA2gm0tE64

Did you learn anything about conflags/divebombs from this? "Everyone together" for fireball/"On us", people calling out names of those who have fireball/conflag. on them, Ruin calling out short conflags., people telling you when they're conflagged, where DPS needs to increase,

Not only that but you get positioning, where she should be tanked, where virus/eye are used for mitigation from party chat, how to deal with snake debuff, when to use LB/cooldowns that people call out, etc

Just so much information in one video that wasn't even meant to be a tutorial.

The same is true for people joining exp groups with no exp: form your own group. You know they have a "new players welcome" and "until we complete our duty" check mark, right? You can also put, "We're a learning group. Come join us." in your comment. I've seen quite a few of these myself. I'm glad people are using PF this way.

I was being really sarcastic in the comment above ^^
I did watch videos, I did read guides for twintania (and twintania only, as said before). Though theoretical knowledge is garbage when you come in action.

By P2 here, I meant the fireballs/conflags. I am a tank, so there is nothing much I can do about them except dps as much as I can waiting for the switch. My entire team know the theory, we just can't make it natural yet. Not due to failing to understand though. Just hard to put all together. On the same level, we'll surely fail horribly on dives, then on snake stacks, and then on twisters. I expect horrible deaths on DK, and the 5 hells dance will most likely be the easiest part of all considering how good we are to dance in T1 and T4 until nervous breakdown comes and we wipe in gregorian songs, that is. Anyway we'll see.

Also, I DO create beginners parties, and try again and again and wipe a lot of time. It took around 5 hours of wiping to beat ultima, but we did it. Moggle is still elusive after 3 hours. Doesn't matter, we'll learn.

The point was for QQing elitist players who don't want newbs (which is understandable, don't take me wrong) to just create a static, or LS, or whatever, with which they'll be able to one-shot everything, never have a need to explain anything... These sorts of things. If you do not want to bother with new players, then assume your acts and just create your own pro-clearer groups

[Rivienne]

Did you know I can't possibly be any good? I am a failure of a player because "nobody learns without a video". I have been told this before.. Usually by someone who then eats a wotl or some silly avoidable mechanic and I have to raise them.

The biggest reason people fail content isn't because they didn't watch a video. It is because they fail to dodge, and they fail to communicate. Dodging isn't learned by a video, for most people, but by practice; and videos often seem to be used as a crutch by people who don't want to communicate with others.

Being in a social game means learning to communicate so people know that everyone is doing their part. If 4 people watched one strategy, and 3 watched a different strategy, and 1 is coming in blind; and they just all keep doing there thing over and over again, they will fail until they stop to communicate and work together. That one person who doesn't know the fight isn't going to be the reason they fail.

This is where videos fail, and the idea that you must watch one are a problem. If you want to watch one I certainly won't stop you. But better to communicate with your team, and practice dodging.

This doesn't mean I condone lying about experience. If someone wants form a party with a rule of experienced only, that is absolutely fine. But a video isn't experience. It is rarely even "know the fight". The toxic environments comes from this "overgeared/watched a video/everything is a speed run", being pushed down on people in duty finder/duty roulette or even in party finder where it isn't listed in the comments.

So a tip to those who really care about this: don't use duty finder/duty roulette; and state in your party finder comments experienced only. Anything else is clearly going to frustrate you.

For those who wish to go in blind: form your own party finder group. You will usually get people to help. Don't hijack someone else's party who clearly has a different goal in this game. Whether you agree with that goal or not.

[Kirosuu]

snip

this i agree but some "toxic" wont agree with you
like i said before,i watch video still die alot when first time in hm ifrit
please to those who just want pro/experience/elitist use party finder
we all want better game environment and some of us not even got time bec "job".
if still use df,pls expect newbies/noob/mistakes

you pay to play and so do other, can we just be dbag/elitist/no time to teach/watch video for ourself and not show to other?please?for the sake of other people enjoyment
SE already implement party finder for the sake of you guys so you will not mistakely get noob/newbies in group