Common Courtesy with End-game Raids/Dungeons

[revonine]

watching video personally only help me once I have tried.
I watched the twintania video many time before going in.... no clue what to do once inside.
Watching it after going through the phases made sense.

I've seen the "watch a video" thing many time's on this forum and an interesting question has been raised in this thread. Some people do indeed absorb alot by watching video's and go into an encounter confident that they know what to do. Me on the other hand I learn by doing, and it's how I learned every fight so far. I watched a vid on Twintania any times before attempting it and once there my brain screamed "what the hell is going on" xD
For me if I watch a vid for the likes of Twintania, I know what's coming up I just don't know how to naturally react to it with regards my rotations and stuff.

[Hitome]

Problem?

When the game launched, everyone had to learn from scratch.

And you know what we did during this time? Posted the information we had to forums as well as videos to help others learn it more quickly. ^^

Common Courtesy: If someone is inexperienced, tell them how to deal with the threat ahead.

Do your research is pretty much what the OP is telling you. See: you've already been warned about the threat ahead and how to deal with it.

These are going to be your most common responses.

"You could always explain it to the newbies"

"I'll play however I want to pay cuz I paid for it"

The amount of bad players end game is staggering. Doesn't hurt to go in with some knowledge that could help you play better.

That's great. I already figured the content out. As a tank, why should I die repeatedly just to help someone else learn?

The issue is in this game is the people who are not up to par hardly ask what to do. They just go in and fail constantly and waste everyone elses time. Example Garuda people come in and obviously have no clue about anything on the fight. Do not ask and die repetitively due to not killing feathers or pulling adds or missing spiny.... this is the problems and WE SHOULD NOT BE NICE TO THESE PEOPLE IF THEY DO NOT ASK AND CONSTANTLY SCREWUP OVER AND OVER AND OVER.

I rarely pug anything but when I do I will explain anything if asked. If no one ask and someone just waste my time then I see no reason to not call them out and tell them they are clueless.

This is a throw away content style game... everything is a rush to get done before everything you are doing becomes a waste of time. Sounds horrible but that is the game the devs gave us.

But all in all
People attempting to learn = perfectly fine with and will help.
People attempting to leach = They need to add a "too weak" or "Clueless" reason on the vote to kick

Honestly, let the people who say they don't need to watch a video before a fight (then die on something like Titan Ex) do whatever they want. It's their money, right? They can play however they want.

However, it's our money too. In return, simply encourage the current behavior that persists in this game.

Set the ilevel much higher than needed for the fight, exclude certain jobs, eliminate these players from PF runs if they make multiple mistakes, force them to buy runs when they realize they can't accomplish something because they're too stubborn to do 5 minutes of research, etc.

Then they'll wonder why the game's current environment is so toxic and all you'll have to tell these players that refuse to do their research is: because you made it this way.

[iskoaya]

[1]Watch a video and/or read guides before going through it.

Even an end-game entry dungeon like Wanderer's Palace could prove fatal in the face of players who doesnt know what to do

Be more aware, the time you spent learning can save you the frustration of going over and over a run.

[2]You are now eligible for it but that doesnt mean you are "good to go"

Your gears play a crucial part in terms of clearing a run so if you think/know that your barely getting that requirement, use your time more wisely by running more appropriate dungeons so you'll be more prepared for the higher ones.

In summary
-Its better to be overgeared than be undergeared
-Having to know what your getting yourself into is better than going in blindly

Hopefully this post raises awareness so all players can have an enjoyable and more successful runs

omg really haha

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/threads/143481

best way to farm Philo <> myth <> gil ... while watching TV <> playing Xbox <> doing homework <> anything else.. with almost no attention what so ever

[Tears-of-Death]

If you don't like teaching newer players how to do things then perhaps you should stick to fc groups where you aren't teaching people how to do things since you can enforce your know the fight rules to people.

You don't have to get in depth and explain all the fight details but at least hit the broad points and let them see the fight. MMO gaming might not be for you if you patience issues.

[Kirosuu]

the age of enjoying MMO is long gone
now the time to enjoy the MMO via study the raid or go watch video requirement, be overgear, prepare to get kick when you mess up and importantly play how other people want you to play,what class they told you so you can help those elitist farm more gear when they using duty finder/duty routlet to recruit random player
and any newbies pls dont use duty routlet/duty finder because you dont want to waste their time teach you raid mechanic because they expect you to be same like them
they cant use party finder/premade group because it too mainstream

remember guys, MMO is a job and not some sort of entertainment now

[Hitome]

I have been told by many people that I am one of the most patient educators they have come across. My field of study isn't even education but engineering.

I will always teach players because that is my nature.

However, I have no tolerance for those individuals (like in this thread) who would inconvenience 7 other players because they didn't use a resource available to them.

You're new and enter a PF group or dungeon telling people that? Great. I know what I need to do and won't look like a know-it-all if I explain strategy.

You're new and enter a PF group or dungeon without telling people that and cause multiple wipes? Especially a group that specifies experienced players only? I will boot you without even blinking.

the age of enjoying MMO is long gone
now the time to enjoy the MMO via study the raid or go watch video requirement, be overgear, prepare to get kick when you mess up and importantly play how other people want you to play,what class they told you so you can help those elitist farm more gear when they using duty finder/duty routlet to recruit random player
and any newbies pls dont use duty routlet/duty finder because you dont want to waste their time teach you raid mechanic because they expect you to be same like them
they cant use party finder/premade group because it too mainstream

remember guys, MMO is a job and not some sort of entertainment now

We are now in the year 2014. Information is readily available to you. Refuse to use it? You get what you put in.

It's like having a student whine to me about failing a test because they didn't study prior to taking the test. No sympathy.

[Kirosuu]

We are now in the year 2014. Information is readily available to you. Refuse to use it? You get what you put in.

It's like having a student whine to me about failing a test because they didn't study prior to taking the test. No sympathy.

yeahhh you not really understand
people like you the one make a MMO feel like a job and from your example too feel like it
where the enjoy?where the fun?
those toxic community will said they got no time to play bec of job or real life so why play MMO in first place?to enjoy or to make it feel like job?

toxic community is the one that make requirement to watch video or get kick, i watch video HM ifrit and i die alot because those strategy not work for me, well thanks to some understanding japanese and random stranger for not give up, now i can do it easily
toxic community the one that use duty routlet/duty finder but get angry to newbies or people watch cutscene + with vote abandon make it worse, i already seen this,newbies get kick when he said new to dungeon
toxic community never try to teach anything to newbies,answer their question or even give suggestion about their gear/class. do you guys ever bother read someone shout ask this and that or even try help random people how to improve their class/job
toxic community cant accept any single mess up and want everyone perfect. this is normal in duty finder now...yeah normal

the biggest thing is, those who depend on watch video mostly unable make plan B in raid. easy example at Atomos in CT which need 4 people on pedestal/switch. what happen is there 4 melee dps?or 1 range 3 melee? 8 out of 10 quit, emo,mad and vote kick

[Hitome]

people like you the one make a MMO feel like a job and from your example too feel like it
where the enjoy?where the fun?
those toxic community will said they got no time to play bec of job or real life so why play MMO in first place?to enjoy or to make it feel like job?

The fun is in accomplishing things with people who share the same mentality I do: put pride into your job and understand you are playing with 7 other players so come best prepared as you can be. When you begin to think that inconveniencing 7 other players is OK, you become the problem.

toxic community is the one that make requirement to watch video or get kick, i watch video HM ifrit and i die alot because those strategy not work for me, well thanks to some understanding japanese and random stranger for not give up, now i can do it easily

Never have I seen someone say "watch a video or get kicked".

toxic community the one that use duty routlet/duty finder but get angry to newbies or people watch cutscene + with vote abandon make it worse, i already seen this,newbies get kick when he said new to dungeon

Already said you should leave learning to DF groups.

toxic community never try to teach anything to newbies,answer their question or even give suggestion about their gear/class. do you guys ever bother read someone shout ask this and that or even try help random people how to improve their class/job
toxic community cant accept any single mess up and want everyone perfect. this is normal in duty finder now...yeah normal

A toxic community is one where a majority of players do not do their research and then complain about fights being too difficult. Toxic and entitled.

the biggest thing is, those who depend on watch video mostly unable make plan B in raid. easy example at Atomos in CT which need 4 people on pedestal/switch. what happen is there 4 melee dps?or 1 range 3 melee? 8 out of 10 quit, emo,mad and vote kick

It's too bad you have no proof of this.

Also, people who watch a video are more prepared than someone going in blind.

yeahhh you not really understand

It's perhaps you that doesn't understand what a MMO is. You are playing with other people. Do your part so everyone else can do theirs.

And how much satisfaction do YOU get when you complete a single player RPG exactly how it's written step by step from a strategy guide and looking up GameFAQs your first time through? ............. If your greatest sense of achievement is from doing that, just try playing a new single player RPG WITHOUT help once.

My gameplay in a single player RPG does not affect 7 other people. Poor analogy but nice try with the fallacious reasoning.

On the topic of watching videos, I've never watched one yet either. I think someone is more likely to absorb feedback and correct mistakes when they don't have a skewed idea of what to expect, let alone if something goes out of order from what you think you "remember" from the video. Not to mention if a fight is explained real-time, anyone can put in THEIR two cents or confirm so that everyone is on the same wavelength and the fight goes smoothly.

K try that when you get to Twin and let me know how it works for you.

I was just in a Thornmarch fight with 3 brand new DPS (never saw the fight before) and 1 new tank. We took 5 minutes to rundown how the fight went and beat it the first time. It was my ONLY win out of about 8 King Mog fights today in DF. Some might say it's not a challenging fight anymore, but why do so many DFs usually fail it then? A little communication goes WAYYYYY further than any video ever will, plus you might even make some new friends.

Oh it's story time is it?

Earlier tonight on my alt, Hito Yu, I was running turn 4 with a PF group that required members to be experienced. Despite the requirement, we discussed strategy extensively before we engaged. I actually told people what to expect, what was coming, how to deal with it, where we should stand, etc.

You'll never guess what happened. The tank had no clue where the first soldier/knight dropped (something you can easily pick up from a video), had no idea the dreadknoughts cleaved (something you could observe from a video), the BLMs had no idea to AoE the double rook phase and when they did AoE, didn't know to sit in the middle because crap runs to you when you pull aggro you know, and no one knew what was coming when a soldier/knight/rook all dropped down on them. It was a complete surprise. After wiping, they asked, "What was that phase? I've never seen it/didn't know how to deal with it." after I had asked them if they knew what to expect on all phases where most of them said, "Of course." or "I've been clearing this for 7 weeks."

Hmm how could someone figure all this out..right: watch a video of the entire fight or read a text-based strategy guide.

This is the only time I've ever wiped on T4 ever since learning it 4 and a half months ago.

Spoken like someone who's never failed in their life. Congratulations on a luxurious upbringing.

Emphasis is not on failure but on people too stubborn to use resources available to them. Thought that post was pretty clear with its point.

[Kirosuu]

snip

so tell, why do those kind of people use df and expect them to be expert?thats the main problem.why cant those kind of people do it?or do you part of those people too?
i understand if using pf but in df?really?

also i put pride or so you call it and do my part and explaining part.spend time to explain save more time than leave them alone, right?
i was a noob like them but cant go to coil just because no experience to join coil. but im not mad. maybe bec my gear so i just grind gear.

[Hitome]

so tell, why do those kind of people use df and expect them to be expert?thats the main problem.why cant those kind of people do it?or do you part of those people too?
i understand if using pf but in df?really?

also i put pride or so you call it and do my part and explaining part.spend time to explain save more time than leave them alone, right?
i was a noob like them but cant go to coil just because no experience to join coil. but im not mad. maybe bec my gear so i just grind gear.

Why join a PF exp group when you don't have the exp? lol Same situation.

DF will always be extremes. You can hide behind anonymity and will never see most of the people there again.

Even with these hindrances, you can still learn quite a lot in DF.

Ok so aftet reading the whole thread, I am now convinced that watching videos & reading guides and stuff allows you to be able to win any content in the game..

After the obvious fact that said videos & guides were made by people going blindly... I have a little and boring question :
Why, after a month of reading and watching, and 2 weeks trying, am I still unable to go past twintania p2 ?

P2? Are you stuck on conflags or stuck on divebombs? Divebombs are the hardest part of the encounter.

Videos will help immensely on conflag, twister/dreadknight, snake burn, and liquid hellx5/egg stage. And I mean immensely. There are quite a few YT videos out right now on tactics for divebombs. There are also widgets that take all the guess work out of it.

Divebombs are something everyone needs to pass or you will most likely fail. Go watch a video. Guarantee you that you will find people saying, "Up up up" when divebombs trigger using voice comm. or mention something when the 2nd set of divebombs are about to hit. You can use macros and cooldowns to track time between the two sets of divebombs too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOA2gm0tE64

Did you learn anything about conflags/divebombs from this? "Everyone together" for fireball/"On us", people calling out names of those who have fireball/conflag. on them, Ruin calling out short conflags., people telling you when they're conflagged, where DPS needs to increase,

Not only that but you get positioning, where she should be tanked, where virus/eye are used for mitigation from party chat, how to deal with snake debuff, when to use LB/cooldowns that people call out, etc

Just so much information in one video that wasn't even meant to be a tutorial.

If people do not want beginners in their group, just CREATE yours with friends and do ALL content together. never again people to waste your time.

The same is true for people joining exp groups with no exp: form your own group. You know they have a "new players welcome" and "until we complete our duty" check mark, right? You can also put, "We're a learning group. Come join us." in your comment. I've seen quite a few of these myself. I'm glad people are using PF this way.