Common Courtesy with End-game Raids/Dungeons

[CrAZYVIC]

For me is unacceptable in the 2014, the people refuse Read informative web sites or watch one the millions of videos Lets play in youtube.

Yes in the 2005. We were dealing with people without access to the information because they played on ps2 and we teach those players all the mechanisms in the Fights.

Im Respecting you as Newbie, explaing you everything before a fight but i ask you the same, respect the time the other players and look for info before jump straight in the new dungeon.

You can watch the CS in 1080p full HD after we beat the dungeon in youtube. But Please this is not 2005 anymore, dont make us deal with your laziness and your disrespect to the time other players.

[Jynx]

disrespect to the time other players.

Hear that guys?

We better not waste this dudes time while he's playing video games, hes got a job you know and evidently playing FFXIV is one of them.

[ElHeggunte]

Hear that guys?

We better not waste this dudes time while he's playing video games, hes got a job you know and evidently playing FFXIV is one of them.

Well people do set aside time for the game. It is disrespectful to the other players in your group if your inability or refusal to learn the content causes repeated wipes which in turn wastes the time of everyone else (I've never met someone who enjoys logging on to not clear content). Just because the time is being spent on something "unproductive" like a game doesn't mean it isn't valuable and doesn't mean it can't be wasted by unwanted nonsense.

[Doo]

Well people do set aside time for the game. It is disrespectful to the other players in your group if your inability or refusal to learn the content causes repeated wipes which in turn wastes the time of everyone else (I've never met someone who enjoys logging on to not clear content). Just because the time is being spent on something "unproductive" like a game doesn't mean it isn't valuable and doesn't mean it can't be wasted by unwanted nonsense.

If players didn't care about time FFXI-2 would of been made

[Jynx]

Well people do set aside time for the game.

Good for them, they knew when they signed up that they would be playing with people who might have differening opinions than they do.

Do I watch fights beforehand and try to get the fight right the first time? I sure as hell do.

Do I expect everyone to do what I do? Nope, if I want people to know their stuff from the get-go I run with people I know. I can't expect a random guy to play the game the way I want him to play, he has every right to learn the fight whatever way he wants. Will said person be shunned from "Experienced playerz only guyz" Sure why not finding a group of like minded people is part of what the game having a community should be about.

I could go on about how XIV is very anti community and fights a uphill battle as long as they keep aspects of the game so heavy in certain areas, but let's just say this isn't a problem in many games because you actually had to find people to play with instead of being randomly slotted with others.

As soon as you press that duty finder button all bets are off, There is a good chance that at least one person in your group of randomly selected people will play differently than the rest. Good thing you can you know...talk to people. If there is one stuborn guy who rammed the duty finder button expecting people to crash and burn with him when nobody else wants to, vote him out because he is disrupting your play.

Find yourself in a group with more than one member of this mindset? Vote Abandon or deal with it.

You have the tools available to you to avoid "Unwanted nonsense" but people more often choose to try the path of least resistance (Duty Finder) against the method that works (Know the people you play with) and expect others to bend to their will.

On either side of the fence there needs to be common courtesy but shunning people because of their playstyle just isn't cool nor is it fair to anyone.

Some people enjoy the game being a unknown challenge, some just want to bring the game down to a sequence of macros and forward knowledge. Both can Co-Exist, hell both can play together if their willing to bend.

[Axlle10]

so much elitism, so little common human sense. did you forget that you have to train people to do their job? even a frycook cant go and do everything immediately just by watching a video or reading a guide. it takes doing the work to get a feel for it. You think doctors just read books and are immediately an expert in their field? no, it takes PRACTICE and PATIENCE. those 2 words are things you know very little to nothing of i guess. or did you forget when you first did every single dungeon.

[ispano]

so much elitism, so little common human sense. did you forget that you have to train people to do their job? even a frycook cant go and do everything immediately just by watching a video or reading a guide. it takes doing the work to get a feel for it. You think doctors just read books and are immediately an expert in their field? no, it takes PRACTICE and PATIENCE. those 2 words are things you know very little to nothing of i guess. or did you forget when you first did every single dungeon.

Not really the best comparison. Learning to be a Doctor, or some other profession is much closer to learning to play the game as a whole, or a given class/job. Not a given fight. When you have experience from many other fights in the game, and even other games, a video could be all you need to learn a new fight.

[Dracosavarian]

Not really the best comparison. Learning to be a Doctor, or some other profession is much closer to learning to play the game as a whole, or a given class/job. Not a given fight. When you have experience from many other fights in the game, and even other games, a video could be all you need to learn a new fight.

No, it is a good comparison, and one that is truthful to boot.

Fun fact. Not everyone is an auditory or visual learner. A good deal of us, such as myself, are kinesthetic. Meaning, we learn by DOING. Tactile learners. For example the boss in Aurum Vale that can one shot you, the cyclops with that 1000 ton ability that is an aoe circle around it. Videos mention very little about it. I know, I researched the dungeon before going in. I learned the quirks and mechanics of the fight by having patient DF members and working through it myself, despite the multiple videos I watched having failed me, as so many end game players advise watching.

I was still getting one shotted or dropped to near nothing as a tank. Because none of the videos, and even the people telling me about the boss, told me specifically that it is better to dodge the attack by retreating full on backwards, instead of rushing forwards and through and behind the boss or to it's side to dodge the attack. These are things you have to learn on your own.

Minor details like that make a big difference. Details that get missed and that many videos never deign to explain.

Experience in the game trumps everything. Period. Videos can only tell you so much. Learning first hand? It sticks with you. I can assure you of that.

[ispano]

No, it is a good comparison, and one that is truthful to boot.

No, it wasn't. He was comparing learning a single encounter/instance to a full job. Which isn't quite right. It would be more akin to learning your job through the whole game and comparing that to a job in real life.

Also, I know people learn differently. I also know that some of them don't learn as well in a given way as they think they do. I've seen plenty of people who say they learn by doing, but then fail to learn something repeatedly, even though they experience it over and over.

Note, i'm not saying everyone should be required to research prior. Just if you expect a certain type of person, be it people who research or people who want to go in blind, you don't use DF. AND not to blindly bash the ability to research ahead of time, like some in the thread have done.

[Dracosavarian]

No, it wasn't. He was comparing learning a single encounter/instance to a full job. Which isn't quite right. It would be more akin to learning your job through the whole game and comparing that to a job in real life.

I strongly disagree and will continue to stand by his point. Which is that you don't truly learn something by simply reading a book, or watching a video. Human Beings don't work that way. Kinesthetic learners don't work that way. Mayhaps you do. But I am not you. Neither is a great deal of the human populace. Say what you will, but his point stands. No matter how much you wish to try and refute it.

A doctor doesn't learn how to perform surgery by simply watching a video. Nor does a Paladin Tank in FFXIV learn minor intricacies of a fight by merely reading about it or watching a great deal of video footage about it.

His point is that experience trumps all. Whether a Job in Information Technology, being a Surgeon, or tanking a certain EX mode boss in FFXIV...experience through learning will trump watching a video any day of the way. Period.