Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

[givemeraptors]

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

It's easy if you know what you're doing, or at least 3/4ths of the people do. And in this specific case I had the time so I decided I may as well make the effort to learn and teach so that the next time someone rolls into Pharos they don't insta-quit or drag their party down (which will ultimately cost more time than my measly lost hour).

[Hiroradius]

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

And this is why peope can't beat the new dungeons. This is not a statement ment at you directly, but SE has given us the same exact incentive to run WP which they know people do these 10 minute speed runs as doing Pharos, yet Pharos people need to be on their game, WP has become so easy that you can fool around, and troll each other and still get it done in 15 minutes.


Then they come up with new gear, yet the new gear drops from all the dungeons, WP, AK, hard modes, etc instead of exclusive Pharos or Copperbell, so in the end people don't have the incentive to try and work with a weaker skilled group, and instead CAUSE the mass replacement of Pharos that seems to happen often.. I wonder if there are groups who complete Pharos that an original party member is still there.

I go into Pharos and plan on teaching it every single time. I have quick but clear instructions for each fight, doesn't get technical, just...

1st boss, kill dogs ASAP, dogs are more important than boss, don't stand in bad stuff. bad stuff on ground get's larger, you will see.
2nd boss, I'll take care of eggs, you dps boss, when an add does spawn, focus on add. We need some adds to spawn to not wipe.
3rd boss, burn burn burn, healer you will need to kite or take one for the team.
4th boss, kill adds, they sargents first then other, boss teleports, if in middle we stack on her, if not in middle avoid middle. Healer keep us full or we could die, tank needs to try and interupt her songs.

Very simple, and I've had groups on first time through, usually 2 shot most of these bosses.

[Kabooa]

By remade it you mean turned it into a genre that rewards the lowest common denominator and teaches us that if you cry loud enough you will always get your way?

Original WoW was hard.
BC WoW was hard.
Lich King WoW was difficult in heroic mode.
Cataclysm WoW was difficult, hard in heroic.
Panda WoW is easier, but heroic is still hard.

LFR is not the measure to rate WoW's difficulty.

FF14 is easier than WoW. The only reason there's trouble is that the game isn't nearly as responsive when it comes to context sensitive location and one-shot abilities.

[Ishmachiah]

Learn to read, please do. I said , but you skipped this sentence. The new "old-genre" MMO's are now P2W, you can guess why. I wonder why I'm answering you, you skipped school so much and now you fail to understand a feeling written in a simple sentence. I just can't accept the overkill of a complete genre.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, so I'll use small words. I read exactly what you wrote, not skipping a line. I never said "New Old Genre MMOs", I said (pay attention now) that the games that embody the genre you believe MMOs should be, are still online right now. That means, the games you enjoyed back in 2003 are still running their servers.

If the genre was dead (i.e. overkill), there would not be any MMOs on the market for you to complain about. Blizzard did not kill anything, they brought MMOs to the forefront and remade a genre that had an abysmal reputation (Evercrack anyone?).

I get it, you don't like the way FF14 or modern MMOs are. I understand. I really do. I don't care, but I understand. So, I will say this again and be sure to wear your reading glasses. Take your own advice that you gave to the OP and uninstall. Go back to those games that are stuck in 2003 and leave us who live in 2014 where we are. Not the new games that resemble what you liked, the original games that you liked. Go back to them and uninstall.

/thread

[lxSch]

A short story.
There was one mmo where leveling was very slow (1 year to cap) so people would run the same dungeon for months before they can move to another. My time playing there was great because mostly any team i joined was well experienced and geared, so it was a friendly and easy run.
But one day publisher decided to make x3 exp rate (forever), as a result most of dungeons became swarmed with new people who had no clue what to do and of course 4 of 5 teams would disband due to continuous wipes. Needless to say people stopped joining public teams - only friend list teams and statics.
End of the real story i have been through.

I think doing hard content in a casual game is pointless (except for elite players who move with their static). 95% players are very bad and will never improve because they don't have to work for gear and level.
Someone gets lv50 in 2 weeks and in 2 more weeks he is full i90 and ready to join any coil/ex team with very little experience of doing endgame content or even playing their class.

[LunarEmerald]

Even with the echo buff, Titan is a roadblock for players. Until square decides to nerf Titan Ex again, they're forced to improve if they want to advance.

[Hardware_Hank]

A prime example.

I just attempted to kill Ultima on my tank.
An i88 tank said 'first time here, what do i have to do,' to which I responded 'Just taunt off me at 3 stacks and move out of things. Don't touch the glowing balls when they spawn,' and he said 'xD ok'
I start tanking, I get to 3 stacks, I said 'Okay take it.' He just keeps comboing, no attempt at taunting. Four stacks, I start spamming 'Taunt him' with sound effects. Nope. Five stacks, I Hallowed Ground and continue spamming. Nope. I die and then he moves into place, eats every ability, and dies.

This player should not have been able to obtain that much i90 gear, but it could, because you can get a full set just by logging in every week.

there is nothing more annoying in this game than when you explain the fight, they acknowledge that and then they still avoid of even trying what you just told them to do.

[lxSch]

It takes 2 weeks (past reaching lv50) to unlock titan ex, pretty much everyone can queue or join PF for it (or coil). This roadblock works for people who downed ex primals and coil in 2.1, but is bad for those who had not because even with PF success rate is close to 0% unless you start making a friend list. But being a casual mmo with short play time very few players will ever stay for more than a month or two, so friend list will not work much.
Thus i think casual mmos are not suited for hard content (unless you have a static team to progress with).

[Kuwagami]

Over an hour and didn't clear it?

that sounds horrible ... and that is why I leave if i get it in roulette. The risk/reward is too low, the 30 minute timer + a 15 min manor or WP roulette is less time spent. (Sorry I don't have unlimited time to spend carry horrible players).

And the fact this is the case is sad, because the the place is very easy.

It's because people like you that I always do high level DR in tank. Because people like you can't take a minute to help new players to clear that place, and leave asap. Thanksfully, it takes under 5 minutes to get a team ready when I'm a tank, and then we're good to go, and clear it under 45 minutes even with 3/4 new players. Because they CAN clear it. You just never let them try. I've seen much more iL90 players with allagan gear fail horribly there than new players in DL or under

[skho01]

To put things in perspective... perhaps these "scrubs" have the potential to be better players if they were given a chance to fail and hopefully learn. I for one farmed all my i90 gear without a LS, static, or FC grps. In fact, I pugged everything. Unfortunately, the first few fails were entirely my fault and it sucks for people that have had lots of experiences running it with their LS, Static, and/or FC groups.

Perhaps a little more patience and benefit of the doubt would be good in these kinds of wipe fest situations.