Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

[AlrikRouge]

Snip

I consider myself a good tank. But I have no chance in hell to learn a fight well and to success if I dont know how to dance well with the party Im in. Some group was willing to help me learn GX as well as some DPS. Took us about twenty minutes to really get to the point where we could probably have beat it. Then one DPS ducks out, "sorry. Cant waste more time on this" and we ended up disbanding.

T5 - some PF was willing to take me and one other on. They taught me and I ended up doing better than their FC tank within an hour.

Knowing there are people willing to help me learn and practice, and I in turn help them win at some point is all I need as an incentive to play. It is a game, right?

[shadowrell_d-_-b]

Sooooo my SCH is full i90, nearly full AF2 I have one coil choker (I don't use since its not BiS for me) and my Ruda EX ring as my secondary heal ring other than that I am full AF2 due to just not having any luck with drops in coil -_- (not to mention only thing in coil that's BiS for me is gloves and feet). So because I cant seem to get lucky enough to get any coil gear does that mean I suck?

I have downed T5 also in my easy to obtain AF2 ;P (post twister nerf, so I guess I still suck ;P)

fact is gear is nothing but a key to attempting certain fights, I don't get mad at anyone because I understand it takes time and attempts to actually understand fights. allow ppl to learn!

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

Knowing there are people willing to help me learn and practice, and I in turn help them win at some point is all I need as an incentive to play. It is a game, right?

This. This is where the incentive lies. Positive, skilled players who are willing to take the time to help others learn and not just ditch them at the first sign of difficulty or failure. Yes, sometimes people just don't get it, or your best efforts still result in wipes, but I say again, if the higher skilled/geared players become nasty and impatient toward lesser skilled/geared players, it creates a gap, a huge wall that no one will want to climb without proper gear. Look at Crystal Tower. Word of the negative players' attitudes spread quicker than the raid's mechanics, and people who already actually have adequate gear for CT don't WANT to try it out because of it.

[Miburo]

If you read my post fully, I can quote in my post where I mentioned that I do not care about people getting loot and only caring that people don't take the time to get better at dungeons or at their class. And there is no incentive to clear new content if you already refused to clear old content when it was buffed. Why try to get better at new content when it will just be nerfed to be easy mode for you? All new content, as the interviews have already stated, will be just as hard. Sure, maybe people will try them just because they are released but if its too hard for them, they will give up and just wait until the nerf.

Already addressed this. There is an incentive to improve for people with the goal of beating new content. For the people that don't care about that there wouldn't be anything you could do to make them care. Which is perfectly fine. The game isn't all about that. Some people play to roleplay or just enjoy the social aspect or whatever. There is no logical reason to care if people want to challenge the most difficult content or improve their combat skills to do so. As has been posted multiple times in this thread by multiple people, stop worrying so much about what other people are doing ffs.

Goddamn, post limit for this forum is obnoxious, lol.

[Orophin]

Blame it on people capitalizing on selling runs. They're hurting the community at large by carrying these people through things for gear, then when they join random groups where everyone is expected to pull their weight they can't perform.

[Samsta]

Blame it on people capitalizing on selling runs. They're hurting the community at large by carrying these people through things for gear, then when they join random groups where everyone is expected to pull their weight they can't perform.

Lots of run-buyers are actually good players who just want to find a good group so they can complete a fight that needs everyone to be good.

[shadowrell_d-_-b]

Lots of run-buyers are actually good players who just want to find a good group so they can complete a fight that needs everyone to be good.

^ this, I myself have never had to buy a run due to having had a steady FC raid group however while we never asked for Gil for it we have helped many players pass content they were stuck on due to not being able to find a group good enough to clear with! these buyers are not bad players nor are they to blame for anything, simply put this game requires that multiple players be competent enough to take down some fights not just ONE person.

what I find funny is most wipes in a run are multiple players fault including the so called non- buyers that seem to think because they didn't need to resort to purchasing help they are that much better than some that did, id be rich if I got Gil for every time I entered a PUG only to find the ppl getting mad at other players where the ones causing the group to wipe.

[Max_Damade]

This is pretty much the way it is in all Japanese RPGs.
If the game is currently too difficult for your skill level, you need to grind more to become stronger.
Some people, because of their high level of skill, can complete a game while still at a low level.
Others need to grind levels to win.
Ni No Kuni was easy with every character at level 99.

[illuminapanic]

Already addressed this. There is an incentive to improve for people with the goal of beating new content. For the people that don't care about that there wouldn't be anything you could do to make them care. Which is perfectly fine. The game isn't all about that. Some people play to roleplay or just enjoy the social aspect or whatever. There is no logical reason to care if people want to challenge the most difficult content or improve their combat skills to do so. As has been posted multiple times in this thread by multiple people, stop worrying so much about what other people are doing ffs.

Goddamn, post limit for this forum is obnoxious, lol.

See, this is the reason why dungeon finders and party finders have a very high failure rate. If people want to just log on to socialize or role play, go for it. Just don't waste other people's times if you aren't willing to learn or improve because you don't care about other people trying to complete a dungeon. If everybody cared about only themselves, then there would be no written/video guides to teach people how certain mechanics work and how to play their class efficiently. If all you cared about was yourself then you wouldn't try to help the person bringing down your group.

In this game, you HAVE TO RELY on your teammates to be successful. You cannot ignore them and only worry about yourself. You HAVE to see what they are doing wrong and try to help them. But when people start to think "Fuck you, worry about yourself", then we can't accomplish our goal.

But there is no argument here obviously. You've already stated that for people who don't care, there's nothing to be done. Nothing will change your mind with that "worry about yourself" attitude and this game will continue to be a "hard mode" for everyone who refuses to worry about others enough to try and help.

[Miburo]

See, this is the reason why dungeon finders and party finders have a very high failure rate. If people want to just log on to socialize or role play, go for it. Just don't waste other people's times if you aren't willing to learn or improve because you don't care about other people trying to complete a dungeon. If everybody cared about only themselves, then there would be no written/video guides to teach people how certain mechanics work and how to play their class efficiently. If all you cared about was yourself then you wouldn't try to help the person bringing down your group.

In this game, you HAVE TO RELY on your teammates to be successful. You cannot ignore them and only worry about yourself. You HAVE to see what they are doing wrong and try to help them. But when people start to think "Fuck you, worry about yourself", then we can't accomplish our goal.

But there is no argument here obviously. You've already stated that for people who don't care, there's nothing to be done. Nothing will change your mind with that "worry about yourself" attitude and this game will continue to be a "hard mode" for everyone who refuses to worry about others enough to try and help.

Haha. You were just going on about how these people are just giving up and waiting for content to be nerfed. Now you're talking about people being inconsiderate. Those are different things.

I was replying to what you originally said about people not caring about beating content since they can just wait till it gets nerfed. There is no problem there. If people are waiting till things are nerfed because they don't care about beating the highest tier of content then that's perfectly fine and doesn't hurt anyone. If they're not doing anything that causes harm, then you shouldn't care so much about what they're doing. You haven't disputed this.

Now you're talking about people joining things and bringing groups down. That's an entirely different scenario. And yeah, I personally agree that people should show consideration to others by doing what they reasonably can to not be a burden to the members in their party. That's got nothing at all to do with people waiting for content to be nerfed, or OP's issue with gear not accurately representing a person's skill level or whatever. Yes, people should try to be considerate of others. I don't think anyone in this thread said otherwise, and I doubt you'll get much opposition there.

Don't take this as an attack, but you're coming off as overly argumentative here. It seems like you're getting the impression that I'm being stubborn, or you misinterpreted my phrasing and think I'm suggesting that people should be selfish. In reality, we are essentially agreeing with each other. You seem to have no problem with people who would rather wait till content is nerfed before attempting to complete it. If people have different goals in the game then that is totally fine, right? So it's not a problem that needs addressing. I'm sure you agree. And I think we'll both agree that people should try to be considerate of their party members too. You understand what I'm saying? I'm not trying to be combative with you, so there is no need to push back and look for a different angle of attack.