Is anyone else bothered by the lack of incentive for mediocre players to improve?

[Yenn]

Like I suggested, I think just not offering a full higher ilevel set from tomes is an acceptable fix. Instead, only allow a few of the slots to be bought with tomes.
It will give players who just log on and run Wanderer's Palace every week enough gear to have an easier time with the highest level content, but not enough that they can just outgear it.

[ThirdChild_ZKI]

This is a bit of a win/lose, sadly. You have players who will only log on to run content that gets them what they want, then otherwise be done with the game for the day/week, thus not really ever "learning" anything other than what it takes to get tomes/loot/etc. Or perhaps before dungeons really were worth the time/effort vs. reward, the FATE grinders who hit the top quickly, but then were inexperienced with dungeons/trials/raids. These players won't necessarily try to get the better gear unless there's a "guaranteed" method, and in the end, that shrinks an already small base of skilled AND geared players.

In the end, you create the glass ceiling for players who may have the time, but not the skill, an imbalance in effort vs reward for players who lack time but may have skill, and severely diminishing returns for players with both time and skill, who lack other players on their level. I understand that under that model, people who are truly skilled can stand out and readily be recognized for their accomplishments/skills, but that in itself will not be incentive for those who simply DON'T want to try, or those who just wouldn't care anyways.

I may sound like I'm playing devil's advocate, but I'm not really. I just think that the incentive to get better won't be found with restricted gear. Players themselves have to want to be better or want to learn for the sake of being able to enjoy more what's available in game, but mileage varies from person to person.

[Sarepean]

Just my two cents, but there is definitely an issue. Like the OP and others have noted, other games have a clear distinction between the gear (and the item level of the gear) earned in a raid and the gear earned in groupable content (such as WP/CT/AK, etc).

I am all for a third tomestone type, but the tomestone type needs to come from raid level content that is unnerfed. This provides the incentive for upper level players to continue grinding even when they're not pulling items or can't pull an item because they're having to play on a class that can't "Need" the item they are going for.

In addition, give raid level players new content a few weeks in advance of nerfing the old content. Otherwise, we will have an influx of players that have the gear from T5, potentially clouding the ability of raid level parties to tell who is actually qualified (by the skill of having beat T5) from doing T6.

[Sarepean]

And, yes, we do need some kind of a practice mode.


I don't mind teaching. I ran Ultima for four hours last night and welcomed anyone who wanted to go. I pulled exactly 0 items from it.

But, sometimes, I need to be using my time to actually get gear. And it's those times that spending hours trying to find a good party finder, trying to put together a skilled party on my own, or even trying to duty finder the fight repeatedly are most aggravating.

[Worcanna]

There are people who simply do not play MMO's for the heavy handed side of pushing themselves. It isn't a "Sadly" moment either. Not everyone is interested in end game, they play for the relaxation and sometimes, they do reach end-game but that doesn't change their outlook. I will say that some people change mindsets at max level. The moment you are in 24 man CT and you see the fact everyone works together in some ways tends to spike people a bit. Other times, the mechanics of their class and how you max DPS becomes a mindset too. It all comes down to how they want to play the game.

That being said, i find some players attitudes towards people who are not "On their level" kinda scummy. Just because someone isn't max DPS all the time, doesn't mean they are any worse off really. As has been said above, there will always be a imbalance. You just have to get that it's different for each person.

[Merlinian]

There are people who simply do not play MMO's for the heavy handed side of pushing themselves. It isn't a "Sadly" moment either. Not everyone is interested in end game, they play for the relaxation and sometimes, they do reach end-game but that doesn't change their outlook.

I agree, this is one thing in FF XIV i noticed, there are people who played for three months quite regularly and still their highest level is 37. I guess there are many people that are not the usual MMO min-maxers. I think this is the main problem for the OP, that there are too many people that do not share your goals and/or dedication but do not seem to be to concerned to join your groups.

I am guilty of that too, I yelled a an archer yesterday in low level roulette for Copperbell regular, the slime boss, STOP SHOOTING THE BOMB. Still took him/her/it three more times till stopping. An MMO vet would have not donenit again after being told.

[Maero]

While some points i can see people must realize not all of us have ever played mmo's and do not do so everyday.
Simple solution which has already been said would be to join other experienced players, this way there is no "newbies"
Party finder can also be used for this. While i am new i find i have learned fairly well and have played with experienced players which offer advise
rather then being negative. Not tried coil yet but i myself find if i have not performed well at all then i do not deserve loot so pass it on.
Wish some players would have the same mind set in some cases but there are many greedy players out there that just go in for the loot

[i2agnarok]

Incoming Wall of Text.

So lots of comparisons have been made to other MMOs and what they have that FF14 doesn't, but no one seems to be doing the reverse. Here's my two cents.

Yes. You have no idea what you're getting when you see someone geared up. That DRG in Wyrm gear and Relic +1 weapon is not only doing less damage in Titan HM than me, but is also dying before even getting to the Heart phase. Yes, it is infuriating to see him all geared up when you see that all he is doing is Heavy Thrust + the Thrust combo as his rotation, dying repeatedly and holding up the rest of the group when the goal should be easily attainable for the prepared, in addition to the other people that are new in the run having issues and learning the fight.

Does this guy deserve to have his gear? Probably not. Were they carried? Sure. Do I think there should be a higher fence to prevent people like that from running around? Not necessarily with the way this game works and here is why:

1) First off, if I found it easy to get a reliable team, I wouldn't be running with randoms in the first place. I'd have my lovely Relic weapon and I'd be happy in my own little world, feeling awesome. Between duty finder, people unwilling to teach the fights or even have useful hints, and other hiccups (lag), people are just plain irritated and overly critical. So now, taking all of the runs that exist in the game and dividing them into tiers would probably only make things even more complicated. You think wait times are bad now...yes, I personally watch videos for everything I run. Getting it in practice, I will likely die once to any newly introduced mechanic (CBM HM, died to bomb once, didn't die again). Not everyone gets it this quickly. Not everyone does that. The game is a lot more casual-friendly and I don't think its a bad thing.

2) Where things get sort of hairy is when people don't know their class. People can skip learning their classes entirely by participating exclusively in Fates. I don't think the Fate system is bad by any means! It is a fantastic way to go in, get some experience with people, meet some people (possibly to form endgame groups with), and generally do some social stuff. It adds a lot to the game. Unfortunately, you can also power-level and get straight to 50, jump into a dungeon, and immediately get smacked with a brick wall because you don't know your class. It sucks that Fate grinding is as viable as it is to get straight to 50 (and the only real option for secondary classes) and it causes problems, but it is what it is. Power leveling mechanics exist in some form everywhere, but its a LOT more pronounced here.

EDIT
3) Expanding off of 2, a lot of people are also jumping straight to higher content on their alternate classes without really being as.....fluent....went their classes as one would like. That person may be an amazing Melee DPS, but their healer is terrible. They may know the fight from one perspective, but its a different beast on another. Unfortunately, that person is always pointing the finger at someone else, too, so its hard to know if they're just terrible at the fight or terrible at the class. The end result is the same, but correcting it would probably be something else.

I don't think the answer should be to further divide groups that are already hard enough to get people for by divvying dungeons by Tiers (people are still going to get the gear somehow imo), but I do understand the point of the OP's thinking.

[RoughDivider]

I have one question for OP, are you ever happy? Moving on I personally hate mediocrity and strive to output the best dps possible while avoiding any damage I can. I finally decided to pug coil this week and sadly found T1 and T2 lacking. Had a MNK dps in T2 only doing at most 80 dps and much regularly less thsn that -_-, I left that group. I've been spoiled ruining things pretty much exclusively with my FC, sadly all our coil groups are full and I hadn't wanted to pug coil in the hopes of an FC group until recently. The amount of mediocrity you find in pug groups confounds me and wonders how they got through even titan HM.

[Farryn]

I agree with the OP. People shouldn't be handed things and they should actually put effort into learning to play their class so that they can contribute to a party. It's frustrating to see people not learning from their mistakes and leaving dungeons after wipes that they caused because they were carried through the endgame content by their FC and don't want to put in any work to conquer these fights.
Also, people need to stop attacking the OP for his post, it's a completely valid opinion and he's not attacking casuals in any way.