It's become a chore to even log on to the game

[Mihael_Longclaw]

What discussion? You already cancelled your sub. End of discussion.

Is that the point of my post? The point of my post is I won't support this game any longer, SE constantly treats it's playerbase like idiots then expects them to buy their products by doing the bare minimum. They sure put a lot of work into things that become quickly outdated.

[Noahlimits]

Is that the point of my post? The point of my post is I won't support this game any longer, SE constantly treats it's playerbase like idiots then expects them to buy their products by doing the bare minimum. They sure put a lot of work into things that become quickly outdated.

But why do you think anyone cares if you think that?

To each their own, I guess.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

I've already stopped playing for quite awhile now, I log on to speak to my friends.
Believe it or not, I'd love to see this game become something memorable. It's the only MMO that will ever interest me, and my first, but likely my last.

I know the games potential, and I want them to live up to it.
I'm not threatening SE, I'm giving a fact.

[Hyrist]

It's hard to argue with someone who has already made quantitative and final decision on the game, Sorry Mihael but I don't see the value of arguing any of those points with you - primarily because most of them rely on a subjective opinion that you are very firm in defending.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

It's hard to argue with someone who has already made quantitative and final decision on the game, Sorry Mihael but I don't see the value of arguing any of those points with you - primarily because most of them rely on a subjective opinion that you are very firm in defending.

Just because I don't instantly say "I was wrong, sorry for this post, you're right" doesn't mean we can't have discussion.

I know alot of decisions made to the game could affect lots of people, of course there needs to be a balance for everyone.

But in another sense, some of the best games ever made don't try and pander to everyone, they have a vision and they see it through, that's totally unrelated though, haha.

[Exstal]

It's an MMO. You're supposed to skip through the story as fast as you can to get to the good stuff.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

It's an MMO. You're supposed to skip through the story as fast as you can to get to the good stuff.

I considered everything from 1 - 50 more enjoyable than end-game. It's the journey not the destination.

[Hyrist]

Square Enix has a vision. It is often in the defense of this vision that causes the most heat with players on the forums and they cause uprage. Yet, you defend some of the very same practices as 'best' games, which, is highly subjective and borderline hypocritical.

But discussion on matters of saying "is there character development?" is subjective, and often very spoilerish. But, in case of point - what happened to the confidence of the Lancer Storyline Antagonist, how did the course of that plotline ultimately effect that character? Because I can tell you the person you presume to see him as at first is not at the end. And there are plenty of self-contained developments at that point.

I can make cases for main characters in the storyline arc as well, at least two are glaringly apparent to anyone. And even the 'filler content' you argue about often has small stories that depict the life changes.

And lets go further beyond that. SE has proved with their first patch that they are not beneath changing even the landscape to have the game's very enviroment develop with the story, let alone the characters. As far as re-playability, again, that is a highly subjective argument to make. Roulette has made DF instance replay-able on a valuable level, as has the changes to Leves.

The quintessential problem here, from my point of view is burn-out. Players who milk the game-play content for its loot value and little else, and then complain when they reach the treadmill portion of the game that forces them to be patient and consistent, rather than obsessive.

Honestly, I was fairly active in MMOs beforehand, but joining the RP community in this game opened my eyes wide to just how much life of the game itself I was missing.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

Snip

I don't think it's hypocritical at all, SE is completely swayed by some decision of it's fans then ignoring them for some of the actually flawed systems, it's very hit and miss with them. Housing Prices for example, they wanted higher prices, fans spoke up, SE changed it.
Yet for many other concerns of thier players they turn a blind eye.

I can agree with that, but in the end were the character even memorable or likable, I guess that falls to objectivity... but they're also expendable to the sake of the quest, and gameplay.

I do very much look forward to these additions, and expansions not only to gameplay, but to the world, story, and characters.
But in the end, tell me, does putting an apology and self awareness at the end of a tedious fetch quest make it any less boring to play through?
& I say that as someone who actually read all the dialouge.

Please don't make assumptions of my playstyle either, sure I've done my fairshare of endgame but the majority of the time, I'm fishing, talking to friends, levelling my chocobo, helping new players, and crafting.

Fishing is relaxing, a whole lot, but I wouldn't say it's fun, or exciting, I'm basically pressing a button and watching my character fling sparkles out of the water into my hand.
I could play many other games with more interactive and enjoyable fishing mini-games if that's all I do in this one.

I even enjoyed translating the mapwith my GF the other day, only using our heads.

[Traison]

Let me guess, you never played FFXI ^^ (really not trying to patronize you)

I think a lot of players from FFXI are simply missing the mysteries that world held. It was a world the mechanics of which you were LEARNING as you went along the way. Just to give you some examples about this exploration thing, to make it a bit more clear what I'm referring to:

FFXI: When you saw a mob you didn't know if it's aggressive or not. You had to judge by its look, its name or simply try and approach it and see what it does.
FFXIV: Aggro mobs have a big red sign so that it's clear they are aggro

===============

FFXI: The mobs were aggroing based on:
- sight (passing in front of them)
- sound (being close to them)
- magic usage (using magic near them)
- HP (being hurt while close to them, for instance undead mobs had this)

FFXIV: All mobs aggro sight. Of course, super casual and easy to understand, but immersion breaking (see all the speed runs that avoid mobs while passing 10 cm behind their back)

================

FFXI: During the night some specific, night related mobs were appearing, like bats or undedead, making night a more dangerous time to be in the wild.
FFXIV: Day/Night cycle has no influence on mob spawning or behavior.

================

FFXI: Some mobs were appearing only in certain conditions. For instance, elementals (wind, fire etc.) were appearing only during windy weather, hot weather etc.
FFXIV: Weather has no influence on the mobs spawning or behavior.

================

FFXI: There were secrets in the world. For instance, a wall through which you could pass to get into a secret passage or areas not marked on the maps and which you discovered simply by exploring the map edges.
FFXIV: No secret areas whatsoever.

================

FFXI: The world was dangerous, with mobs being way more tough. There were a lot of areas in which exploration was only possible by using invisibility and sound deadening potions/tools, with limited effect in time. This was making exploration a dangerous thing, contributing greatly to the idea of ADVENTURER.
FFXIV: You can get on your chocobo and run circles around mobs 10 levels higher than you easily, meaning the exploration is completely devoid of any danger.

================

FFXI: There were a lot of complex quests and things to do in order to get great rewards. Just as an example, here's how a Notorious Monster called Goblin Archaeologist was spawned in FFXI:

http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Goblin_Archaeologist

Forced Spawn by trading at least one item with merchant value to the spawning point marked by a ???
A player may initiate a trade of any number of items only once per game day. The higher the Resale Price of the item(s), the closer the NM will move to the surface of the ground to claim that item. The minimum value required to move NM by exactly one position is approximately 250 gil.

You can receive the following messages which indicate how close the NM is to the surface:
You hear a voice coming from somewhere extremely deep under the ground...
You hear a voice coming from somewhere very deep under the ground...
You hear a voice coming from somewhere deep under the ground...
You hear a voice from under the ground...
You hear a voice coming from somewhere close to the surface of the ground...
You hear a voice coming from somewhere very close to the surface of the ground...
You hear a voice coming from somewhere extremely close to the surface of the ground...
You hear a voice from right beneath the surface of the ground.
If it has been spawned recently, the spawning point can disappear completely for about 6 game hours.
The level of the NM can vary widely. The NM can range from level 30 to 75 and the level determined is completely random.

Isn't this cool? Imagine doing this for the first time and the anticipation growing as the thing came closer to the surface.
Compare this to FATE and you can understand why some people miss the mystery in FFXI ^^

FFXIV: Fates. 'nuff said!

And so on and so forth.
FFXI had a ton of bad things in it, but some things were great. We're simply sorry that the good went away with the bad ; ;

-Lak

I have played about 3 years of FFXI back around the CoP days and before. I will agree the game has a better sense of exploration, but I feel its because of the general scale of the world rather than its mechanics.

In FFXI you could actually get lost, the whole aspect of having to buy maps and just the shear size of the zones, in which it could take you many minutes to successfully navigate while staying alive took time to learn. Actually knowing what the mobs detected you by was a great touch and did add to the "danger" perceived by the player, but only so much, as once you full understood it and had a class that could cast all the buffs, it wasn't that dangerous anymore.

However, the zones where mostly barren, there was little detail in most of the areas, and while there were secret areas that were not recorded on the maps that could lead you to cool little side areas, they were few and far between, although still a cool little thing to discover your first time. I would argue though that having a small map full of detail is just as good as having a large map with barely any detail except for a few sparse locations.

The NMs in 11 were a really big part of the game, and yeah, some of the ways of interacting with them to summon them was clever and fun, as well as the monsters them selves and how the world was much more connected to the weather cycles and time of day/stage of the moon. All I can say here is I hope 14 gets much better things like this in its future.

From my memory though, the quests in 11 were pretty poor, unless you were doing the story quests, I can't say they were any better or worse than what we are seeing here in 14. What one of the best parts of 11 was imo though, is its huge story that actually feels really epic, although it does span many expansions, and I have no fear that 14 wont deliver on something that is equally as good 5 years down the line.

Tell me about the characters, their personalities and how they developed over the story, and if you thought they were a well written character?
I personally don't know any FF game that is 80% filler content and only 20% actual story quests, dungeons, and cutscenes.

I'm not arguing about the environments, they're gorgeous and the music is great. They still feel lifeless and like just their cause they can be, you can't interact with the world in any manner, and world mobs have little to no replayability or even interesting mechanics. the majority of the *actual* game is spent in instances, not the world. Not to mention the robots called NPCs in this game.

This is my first MMO so I can't say, but I know more singleplayer games that have the feeling, much stronger than this game.

I agree that character development is very weak. They could add quests for each of the Scions and still prolly wouldn't get much attachment for them. However, just because the character doesn't have the best writing for it, doesn't mean you cannot see where the developers want that character to go or how they want them to act. A little disbelief and imagination can go a long way to help improve character flaws from bad writing, it is kind of a must for most games nowadays that don't really focus on character development.

As for your 80%, 20% argument. This is a MMO. You cannot just give people a 30 hour story and call it quits there. Proper dungeons take time and money to make properly and actually have them be enjoyable. Cut-scenes again take lots of time and money to produce on a level that is of FFXIV's range, cannot expect to see them every 20 minutes.
The side filler content is required to leave the player with extra content to play. If it would just be the story, why make it a MMO. Also I would hardly say the game is split as heavily as you are saying. Side quests aside what other filler content is there that could be deemed a negative point to the game?.

Its your only MMO ever played, I suggest you look into others and see just how "lifeless" they can get, FFXIV is far and away better than most out there. It seems that this whole argument here just stems from not seeing what the norm actually is in regards to MMOs.