It's become a chore to even log on to the game

[Aegis]

Basically, in a game XIV is designed for, something like an elemental wheel or things like it could not work.

Except it already has worked in FFXIV. A lot of people preferred V1.23's combat system which featured an elemental wheel.

You may have meant to say ARR rather than XIV.

[Demetirus]

I didn't and likely won't read this thread beyond the op. All I'll say is that I'm sorry you feel that way. I appreciate that you're trying to be constructive and I imagine that the devs will, to some small extent at least, take your criticism in mind and weigh it against many other factors that I couldn't even begin to know. I wish I had more to say than that. I'm one of the folks who are quite happy with the game and like it how it is and how it's going. In a way, I'm sorry that my happiness in this case would hinder yours. I do hope that the devs can find something that can be done to balance it out for all of us and maybe make you like this game again, but if not? That's cool. I understand. Go do something that makes you happy and that you enjoy doing. That's the whole point of these things, right?

Take care out there!

[TheUltimate3]

Except it already has worked in FFXIV. A lot of people preferred V1.23's combat system which featured an elemental wheel.

You may have meant to say ARR rather than XIV.

Yes, I did mean ARR. Was not aware I had to specify. Lesson learned.

But yes, how ARR is designed, it does not work. I can only assume 1.23 was still based on the original XIV, just with a different combat system. There it probably did work, but the game was already tailored in a format where it could work.

[Aegis]

Yes, I did mean ARR. Was not aware I had to specify. Lesson learned.

But yes, how ARR is designed, it does not work. I can only assume 1.23 was still based on the original XIV, just with a different combat system. There it probably did work, but the game was already tailored in a format where it could work.

The main differences in the combat systems are thatVersion 2 gives you your TP up front, AA is just 'white damage', you spam abilities faster at lower TP cost and there's no animation lock.

In version 1, you built your TP through auto-attack, the second and third moves in a combo cost no TP and there was animation lock.

Things like the Ifrit fight are identical between the two versions (except in Version 1, Ifrit used moves semi-randomly from his moveset rather than in a set pattern like now).

I don't see any particular reason why the elemental wheel wasn't game-breaking then, but it would be now.

[Mihael_Longclaw]

Snip

Thank you for the positive post I personally firmly believe there doesn't need to be sides taken, such as common ones "hardcore vs casual" that's not what a game is, a game is a mixture of many other small parts coming together to make an enjoyable and or memorable experience

A game can appeal to lots of different people simply because there's so many different means of expression in the video game medium.

Some people want a game they can log on, that's simple and can just have fun, some want a game with a bit more depth.

I don't think it's so black and white though, there's certainly a middleground, I just want S.E to acknowledge it.

& I am enjoying myself, it's nice to hear from others on these forums, and there's other games and hobbies to keep me busy in my free time

[TheUltimate3]

The main differences in the combat systems are thatVersion 2 gives you your TP up front, AA is just 'white damage', you spam abilities faster at lower TP cost and there's no animation lock.

In version 1, you built your TP through auto-attack, the second and third moves in a combo cost no TP and there was animation lock.

Things like the Ifrit fight are identical between the two versions (except in Version 1, Ifrit used moves semi-randomly from his moveset rather than in a set pattern like now).

I don't see any particular reason why the elemental wheel wasn't game-breaking then, but it would be now.

Again, I believe it is the difference in the game in general. From what I understand, and keep in mind it is very little and I could very well be wrong, Legacy was designed to be far more horizontal than ARR is. Again, I could be wrong, but based on reviews and what other people have said, you leveled up separate classes far more simply than it is now. If that means you didn't have to do a quest to get the other job, you had more cross class abilities, was there difference in how items equipped (meaning I could start off as a cnj, but equip those nice tank gloves if I manage to pick them up) I can't answer that. I did not play Legacy. I only know about ARR and what I have seen work and not worked over the past decade.

Rambled for a bit, but i feel that was necessary. In any case, Legacy was probably designed to closer to how XI functioned, just with a more casual lean. If what I assume is correct, that would mean that by level cap, all characters could, in theory, obtain elemental skills from other players and been all fine and dandy. ARR was designed much much further away from XI and more or less, locked classes down harder. Any level cap character may not have the elemental skills and what not.

This is bad, not because the encounter can't be designed to take that into account, but players in these type of games (vertical) tend to be the worst kind of people. A small elemental bonus may not seem like much, but you can bet all the gold in Ul'dah that they will stack certain jobs for certain encounters. And that's not fun for the people being left out.

Another potential issue is the nature of how enemies resisting certain elements work. That shouldn't be a problem in FF because every blm will have access to other magics, but it is a potential problem that could crop up at some point.

Is it possible? Most defiantly. Can it work? Depends on the game and its community.

(I talk a lot...)

[Mihael_Longclaw]

Snip

Nah that's reasonable, don't worry about rambling, especially with me giving long paragraphs on each page :P

I personally believe, and this is just me, they should scrap how combat and jobs work, like I said implement an elemental wheel (I think it's a staple for an FF game IMO) and add more natural ways for classes/jobs to support eachother, much like how they changed WAR and PLD to be more symbiotic.

The game is vertical, but elemental affinities, set bonuses, and special effects might add the horizontal progression lots would dearly like to see while still retaining a vertical progression for those without the time.

As it stands, most classes/jobs save for White Mage and to a lesser degree Scholar have very solid/ standard rotations, when you go to a new fight, it's unlikely you'd change up your rotations besides maybe removing DoTs from Monk/DRG rotations for example. In my honest opinion, that's very dull, everything starts to bleed together.

[Aegis]

Again, I believe it is the difference in the game in general. From what I understand, and keep in mind it is very little and I could very well be wrong, Legacy was designed to be far more horizontal than ARR is. Again, I could be wrong, but based on reviews and what other people have said, you leveled up separate classes far more simply than it is now. If that means you didn't have to do a quest to get the other job, you had more cross class abilities, was there difference in how items equipped (meaning I could start off as a cnj, but equip those nice tank gloves if I manage to pick them up) I can't answer that. I did not play Legacy. I only know about ARR and what I have seen work and not worked over the past decade.

Rambled for a bit, but i feel that was necessary. In any case, Legacy was probably designed to closer to how XI functioned, just with a more casual lean. If what I assume is correct, that would mean that by level cap, all characters could, in theory, obtain elemental skills from other players and been all fine and dandy. ARR was designed much much further away from XI and more or less, locked classes down harder. Any level cap character may not have the elemental skills and what not.

This is bad, not because the encounter can't be designed to take that into account, but players in these type of games (vertical) tend to be the worst kind of people. A small elemental bonus may not seem like much, but you can bet all the gold in Ul'dah that they will stack certain jobs for certain encounters. And that's not fun for the people being left out.

Another potential issue is the nature of how enemies resisting certain elements work. That shouldn't be a problem in FF because every blm will have access to other magics, but it is a potential problem that could crop up at some point.

Is it possible? Most defiantly. Can it work? Depends on the game and its community.

(I talk a lot...)

The Armoury/Job system was similar to what it is now. Classes could set a lot of abilities from each other, but jobs had a more limited list from their supporting classes (though more variety than we have now).

As for gear, the all classes can wear all gear thing was something from early version 1 (pre 1.18) and you could even wear the gear at any level. However, you didn't get the stat bonuses from them if you weren't on the favoured class. These items received the prefix 'dated' and the recipes for these were removed (though I kept a couple of dated gearsets, so I can walk around as a BLM in full plate mail, still).

I don't think the gear progression method is much of an issue here, a horizontal approach can still be tuned just as hard as a vertical.

The trick to balancing around mob weaknesses and strengths is to either include mutiple enemy types within any given event with different resistances or make events part of a chain (like Garuda > Titan > Ifrit Ex) where certain roles excel in certain fights. This is, to an extent, true already; melee are seen as a hindrance in Garuda Ex due to WW, BLM are seen as a hindrance in Titan Ex due to the constant movement.

[Hazanko]

+This game has just gotten worse and worse as the patches continue to on roll out and nothing is ever fixed, more and more things continue to break, the content is crap.
+Why anyone would pay for this game and it's monthly sub when SE isn't doing anything "great" or "spectacular" with it?
+Seems like everyday is another day for "maintenance", that doesn't get anything done or fixed within the game, that along with RMT announcements like no one has noticed them spamming the crap out of them... :c
+Yet they still spam even though SE "claims" they're doing something about them..
+Over all I'm really disappointed with the state of the game and SE, they both seem to be failing at this point.
+Future patches looked horrible :c please SE go back to school and learn about MMOs all over again, cause this is just crap!

[ApolloGenX]

They could have the elemental wheel and just make sure that different elements are represented.

Personally, one of the things I always found interesting about the blm and whm was that those elements (or whatever) were kind of always ok to use with few exceptions. Dark magic would work on most anything... which is why I thought the blm was so cool. Dark magic being a special and unique type of magic that blms could use- like whm could use white magic.

This is one thing I don't like about the current blm- I find it boring and the same spells used over and over- particularly, the transition to blm didn't open up a spellbook of dark magic. I was really hoping to start seeing more skills as a blm that used this taboo and interesting magic form.

There's no reason that other classes such as sum couldn't have multiple elements, while the blm used dark magic... it might mean that those other classes had more spells/skills, but one type would be optimal, while the blm primarily stuck to dark magic... that seems reasonable to me. Afterall, isn't that the lure of the blm path?