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  1. #101
    Player
    Kallale's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    9
    Character
    Faustigent Clouett
    World
    Gilgamesh
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    It's an argument between three things, safety, speed, and stress. People don't necessarily like the stress of not knowing what mob you are attacking next. Also, people definitely don't like the stress of, "This tank isn't marking. Does he know what he's doing?" Having a pull-more-than-one-group-AOE-party will definitely tilt the encounter more towards speed/stress and it will be over faster assuming everything goes to plan. You have be far more alert. A strict pull-one-group-kill-one-mob-at-a-time strategy is very low stress and high safety. A focused mob dies relatively quickly vs an AOE'd mob. Every mob that dies is less damage for the healer to heal. Sometimes people just want to autopilot a dungeon. They may have come off of a hard fight on an alt class and just don't want to remain too alert. Or maybe they just want a relaxing run vs a fast run. As a tank, you dictate the pace. However, it is not a dictatorship. Try to find the pace everyone is happy with, and people will be happy with you.

    P.S. I have found that you can tell when an encounter is being tanked well based on one factor, Chaos. Generally speaking, the more chaos that is going on, the less skilled/more inexperienced your tank is. A tank that has mastered a dungeon makes it seem very mundane by explaining nuances and conducting encounters in an orderly manner. Pharos Sirius is not the nightmare so many people make it out to be. Keep the chaos low and people will love it.
    (1)

  2. #102
    Player
    MrDiezel's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    194
    Character
    Diezel Lon'dik
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Pugilist Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Viridiana View Post
    Do you understand that it takes between 1/3 and 1/2 of that time to make those attacks more damaging than the alternatives, not the full 18 seconds?
    I think a lot of people dont realize this. Most DoTs are better than a base potency of any attack after half its ticks. Monk's especially (since it doesnt have combo potency bonuses). Having played Bard, I know Bard's DoTs are among some of the best, and can trump many, if not all, Bard's attack in about 1/3 the ticks. This is not taking into consideration guaranteed damage and crits.

    My general rule is: If the DoT can lst half its duration, its worth it
    (0)

  3. #103
    Player
    inkuzen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Limsa Lominsa
    Posts
    38
    Character
    Adonis Faolan
    World
    Cactuar
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 100
    Quote Originally Posted by bokchoykn View Post
    Marking targets doesn't mean "only damage this target". You can mark a target while still having the DPS dot the unmarked or the (2) and (3) targets or AoE the pack down.

    The purpose of marking targets in 4-man dungeons is so that your two DPS don't completely split their non-DoT damage. It simply communicates to the team which mob you intend on building the most aggro on, so they can DPS accordingly. It doesn't say they can't use DoTs or AoE on the other targets.
    I fully agree with this sentiment. Marking helps ensure that whatever single focus damage they are going to do goes to the target I'm building the most aggro on, they can still AoE or DoT the mob 2 and 3, but if they're using a focus attack at a mob it should be at the one I'm using my non AOE hate generating abilities on.
    (2)

  4. #104
    Player
    Yyrkoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    2
    Character
    The Baconator
    World
    Odin
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 43
    I had the same issue with 4-man dungeon not to long ago. I was holding aggro but the healer insulted me and just went on about how I wasn't marking and looking through his characters he hasn't ever tanked before. none of the dps were complaining and I don't mark normally, but out of the countless dungeons I have run all the dps and healers just tell me to rush through it and hold aggro. just this once I got told to mark. So it's pretty interesting imho.
    (0)

  5. #105
    Player
    Imapooonu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    322
    Character
    Drain Bead
    World
    Mateus
    Main Class
    Marauder Lv 50
    Quote Originally Posted by Bridgeburner View Post
    Freshly-edited Post 1:


    170 + (25 x 6)
    = 170 + (150)
    = 320
    xD

    I almost spit my coffee out on that one lol.
    (0)

  6. #106
    Player
    sylin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    44
    Character
    Sylindryl Sorrow
    World
    Leviathan
    Main Class
    Carpenter Lv 50
    Are people getting worse at playing MMOS as time goes on? I mean having the option to mark sure for some encounters, but requiring it for trash mobs LOL, l2p noob...if I played tank I wouldn't mark mobs in general, the mob the tank is facing that's losing life, is the one you should be hitting.../tt will target the tanks target...I more or less laugh when in aPUG and the dps cried if the tank doesn't mark mobs, I mean so now a tanks job is to protect everyone, lead the party, and paint by numbers? while a dps job is to ....spam buttons LOL, I suppose I can see if they are writing macros associated with markings, but other than that, if for normal group content you cant function without the tank marking out mobs for you....maybe these aren't your type of games.
    (2)

  7. #107
    Player
    Katchii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    107
    Character
    Katchii Soilsiu
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Damage over time abilities (e.g. Fracture, Touch of Death, Venomous Bite) yield superior DPS, so it's ideal to apply every available DoT to every enemy (unless you're using AoE), at least once at the start of each pull. Marking targets and using only single-target combos yields inferior damage.
    Marking targets has nothing to do about damage, and everything about making tanking and healing easier. Just because they're marked doesn't mean you can't AoE or put up DoT's on secondary targets, it's used to mark the kill order, because using AoE abilities is resource intensive and not nearly as effective as single target killing in regards to tanking and healing.

    It's much easier to heal when the amount of damage coming in lowers over time, and when 1 of 4 mobs dies the incoming damage drops by 25%. It's also easier to tank and heal when everyone is attacking the same target rather than having every mob attacking a different party member. Even great tanks can't hold threat on mobs if every DPS is attacking a different target. The AoE threat tools available for them just don't cut it when a DPS is going full out on a mob.

    Unless my fundamental understanding of numbers is wrong, marking and focusing one at a time is worse DPS.
    Again, it's not about DPS, it's about party cohesion and effectiveness. I don't care how much DPS you're putting out if peple are dying or it's a hectic pull every time because you can't hold threat due to everyone atacking different targets.

    Marking the mob doesn't mean don't AoE or put up DoT's it means "kill them in this order."

    I've even explained how the maximizing of DoTs is superior damage and makes for a faster, easier run
    I'll say this one more time: marking targets does not stop people from using DoT's or AoE Stop being lazy, when everyone knows which mob to focus on, the groups runs smoother. And I have my doubts that your method yields runs that are any faster than one from a tank that marks a kill order. I'd actually believe the opposite, because when mobs are running everywhere and you can't focus on one target to kill and the healer is having to go into overdrive to keep everyone from dying, things go slower.
    (2)

  8. #108
    Player
    AlrikRouge's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    389
    Character
    Alrik Rouge
    World
    Cerberus
    Main Class
    Gladiator Lv 60
    I did a LL dungeon on DF roulette last night with my i80+ PLD.

    Despite marking the targets (which took a couple seconds at most), the SMN and ARC had other plans: SMN attack #1, ARC attack #1$2 (or focus on 2) and SMN had her summon attacking #3 (or a 3rd target if I hadn't bothered marketing a 3rd) RIGHT at the start of the battle through the end.

    About halfway through the dungeon, I decided to stop contesting for aggro with the DPS Gone Wild (as it was provoke, shield lob, running around crap) let the ARC deal with the mob (who died), and finally the DPS focused on a target until it was dead. DoTing all mobs wasn't the problem either. It was expecting me as the tank to deal with them doing what they want when they want. 6 mobs, lower level, no real AoEs? All but healer level synced. I had no Shield Oath.

    Mind you, no one said anything in the run other than a greeting.

    Props to the healer though for dealing with it and us not wiping once.
    (2)

  9. #109
    Player
    Katchii's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    107
    Character
    Katchii Soilsiu
    World
    Excalibur
    Main Class
    Archer Lv 60
    Are people getting worse at playing MMOS as time goes on? I mean having the option to mark sure for some encounters, but requiring it for trash mobs LOL, l2p noob...if I played tank I wouldn't mark mobs in general, the mob the tank is facing that's losing life, is the one you should be hitting.../
    Doesn't work quite that way in this game due to how healing threat works, PLD tanks especially have to switch between the mobs to use their threat generating attacks to ensure all mobs stick to the tank rather than have one rush to the healer.

    In many MMO's your statement is true, FFXIV forces tanks to actually work for their threat because everyone can generate a ton f it.
    (0)

  10. #110
    Player
    Leira_Raine's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Limsa, Land of the Pirates!
    Posts
    276
    Character
    Talia Renton
    World
    Hyperion
    Main Class
    Lancer Lv 70
    To me it does get frustrating, but only because I'm used to not marking. I sometimes mark it if people request it, but more often than not DPS usually knows to attack what I'm mainly attacking. However, I also do know how to maintain crowd control at level 47+ (could be earlier but can't remember), so DPS should be able to attack whatever they choose in the end.

    However, if people don't know the dungeon (and I ask them this first), I will mark the targets from most important to least important to take down. Marking, for me, is all situational based.
    (0)
    C'est Vie ou Mort!

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