Why mark targets?

[YuriRamona]

Marking targets doesn't mean "only damage this target". You can mark a target while still having the DPS dot the unmarked or the (2) and (3) targets or AoE the pack down.

The purpose of marking targets in 4-man dungeons is so that your two DPS don't completely split their non-DoT damage. It simply communicates to the team which mob you intend on building the most aggro on, so they can DPS accordingly. It doesn't say they can't use DoTs or AoE on the other targets.

Yes, this is true. Of course, the DPS are free to DoT even when marks are up. I should have clarified that, for me, marking is almost always equated with "focus down one at a time".

E.g. bees in Sunken Temple, bastards get to do a Final Sting if DPS is split and it becomes stun resistant due to diminishing returns.
Or just killing the little Twintania dragons so they don't spew liquid hell all over the place as long.

Yes, these are good examples where marking is very useful. I would also include Handmaidens (as mentioned by another person here), as well as the big toads in Dzemael/AV.

I'm just trying to speak generally about avoiding marking in most situations as a means to discourage DPS from focusing down one target at a time on ordinary trash enemies.

Even in the examples we have, though, of where focusing down one target at a time is important, it's still arguably important to spread DoTs to the second and third target in that focus list. While the first one will die much more quickly if the DPS don't spread their DoTs to the second and third targets, the total time taken is greatly increased if DoTs are not employed to maximum effect.

[bokchoykn]

Yes, this is true. Of course, DPS are free to DoT even when marks are up. I should have clarified that, for me, marking is almost always equated with "focus down one at a time".

No, it means "if you're going to go balls out on one of the mobs, do it to THIS one."

I just mark my targets accordingly and leave it up to my DPS whether they think they should DoT other targets or AoE them down. At the end of the day, not using DoTs on #2 and #3 would maybe add 1-2 seconds to each pull. I'd rather spend an extra minute in a dungeon than argue with my DPS over such trivial matters.

[Skies]

Let's begin some explanations, then, Yuri.
First, DPS like to coordinate, we like to focus-fire on the same target while we are dealing ST damage, so having something to guide is through is great. Often one wants the tank to chose the threats according to what he considers worst, personally as a tank I always mark mage enemies first since they are a particular pain for me, but a friend of mine normally points the biggest-damage enemy regardless.

Second, you are in fact fundamentally wrong about the DPS of dots and AoEs. For melee, at least. For both monk and dragoon one of our DoTs is in the tail end of a combo, DoTs also take far too long to tick down completely, more than the encounter should last after the application of the first comboless one so there would be a long stretch of time where we should use our AoE attacks.
Also, AoE attacks consume a LOT of TP for melee, we run dry extremely fast using to the it's impossible to do two pulls back to back, and for both monk and dragoon our most TP-efficient and powerful AoE is ALSO part of a combo, so we need a single-target attack before moving into AoE, thus we'd like to focus-fire that too.

The only time I'm 100% okay with a tank not marking is when I am running with my FC, as we are long-time friends and know eachother enough that there is no need for marks for the DDs to synergize their attacks as we know which are our target priorities.

[YuriRamona]

Second, you are in fact fundamentally wrong about the DPS of dots and AoEs. For melee, at least. For both monk and dragoon one of our DoTs is in the tail end of a combo, DoTs also take far too long to tick down completely, more than the encounter should last after the application of the first comboless one so there would be a long stretch of time where we should use our AoE attacks.
Also, AoE attacks consume a LOT of TP for melee, we run dry extremely fast using to the it's impossible to do two pulls back to back, and for both monk and dragoon our most TP-efficient and powerful AoE is ALSO part of a combo, so we need a single-target attack before moving into AoE, thus we'd like to focus-fire that too.

Obviously, the enemy will die before the DoT ticks to full if you're focusing down one at a time. If you're applying DoTs evenly across enemies and also spreading your single-target weaponskills, then almost all enemies will take longer than 18-30 seconds to fall.

I see this contradiction all the time. A common excuse is "well, the enemy dies in less than 18 seconds anyway, so DoT is not worth it." Yes, but this is only the case if you only use single-target attacks on one enemy at a time.

And yes, AoE abilities are not very TP-efficient. However, single-target combos are only second on the list in terms of TP-efficiency. DoTs are the most TP-efficient, bar none.

[Tzain]

DOT rules are the same as all other actions.

If DPS pulls agro off the tank, it's their own fault. Your actions directly contributed and caused you to take agro. If the tank put up a big honking number on the top of the mob saying "HIT ME FIRST" and you did something other than attacking that target then that's on you.

Hopefully the tank likes you enough to pull it back and the healer likes you enough to help you survive, but make no mistake, that's your own damn fault.

[Bridgeburner]

Sleeping targets is pretty much the worst thing possible for damage, and is to be avoided. Party compositions are not made to always include a WHM or BLM with sleep, and the dungeons simply aren't tuned to require it.

*smiles*. So, what's your unsanctioned 3rd party parsing tool of choice, YuriRamona? This thread is equivalent to saying "I parse hard and must see the largest possible numbers from each engagement to feel satisfaction." Nothing you're writing about concerns core dungeon mechanics, the ability to clear fights, or team survivability. You're not even talking about how to effectively speed-run. You're a numbers player.

So, whatcha usin' to read the numbers? Be sure to bold it for the mods. =)

[Aloysous]

I do my best to mark everything. It just makes things more organized. I like things organized and its not hard to do.

[bardaboo]

IMO if it takes 10 secs to apply dots. X3 30 seconds... could focus blast 2 of those mobs down by that point. On weaker enemies it's just annoying. Considering it takes longer to get full potency from dots.

[YuriRamona]

*smiles*. So, what's your unsanctioned 3rd party parsing tool of choice, YuriRamona? This thread is equivalent to saying "I parse hard and must see the largest possible numbers from each engagement to feel satisfaction." Nothing you're writing about concerns core dungeon mechanics, the ability to clear fights, or team survivability. You're not even talking about how to effectively speed-run. You're a numbers player.

So, whatcha usin' to read the numbers? Be sure to bold it for the mods. =)

If you need a third-party tool to tell the difference between 226 potency True>Full Combo and 330 potency Phlebotomize, you need some serious help with math. (Hint: One number is bigger than the other!)

If you think that maximizing damage is not a "core dungeon mechanic", then I don't know what else to say. I guess we just disagree fundamentally on the idea of progression in this game, and how much skill and ability selection and execution matter.

[Langureion]

Looks like OP is the only one that's confused. (shurg)
OP has also edited the first post which is already different from the original post.
And the title should be something like "how to max dps when marking".....which doesn't really concern marking....
And melee/blm will never max their dps if they are dodging moves tho. lol
So point of the thread?

/popcorn