Why mark targets?

[Viridiana]

How hard is it to macro a marking icon to your pulling ability like tomahawk? Not very hard. The least you could do is make that macro so that people know which target you are focused on.

I actually really dislike macros like this. All it takes is to accidentally double-tap and it's gone, or if you lose aggro and provoke+shield lob a secondary target, suddenly that one's #1, etc.

[Jyoeru]

I actually really dislike macros like this. All it takes is to accidentally double-tap and it's gone, or if you lose aggro and provoke+shield lob a secondary target, suddenly that one's #1, etc.

I double tap all the time. GCD allows me to tap once more without wasting usage on the ability, yet reestablishing the marking icon. Just takes practice.

I can't speak for PLD. Maybe it's not as great for you guys. And it really doesn't matter if you switch that 1 mid-fight. I have accidentally done that, too, and people don't usually switch their focus target. Even if they do, it's never proven to be the end of the world. All that matters is what people are attacking the first 15 seconds of the fight, to be honest.

(Not including adds. People need to know when to attack adds, so that doesn't really apply to this point in the discussion).

[YuriRamona]

How hard is it to macro a marking icon to your pulling ability like tomahawk? Not very hard. The least you could do is make that macro so that people know which target you are focused on. If you're a good tank, that's a good practice, then you should be rotating your enmity abilities through the rest of the pull to keep it going on you. Then you should be focusing on the target DPS is attacking next, which is usually the mob with the next lowest health pool, which you can control by attacking your desired 2nd target after you've secured significant enmity on your primary target.

You spent 100x more time making a post about anti-marking when you could have made that macro and solved the problem. It's not like people in your DF groups are going to come here and read your post and have a new view of the issue at hand. You're the "leader" of the group. I think tanks should act like it.

If people actually viewed tanks as leaders, then obviously, I wouldn't have posted this, would I? I'm trying to get feedback on how to encourage DPS to maximize their damage, whether it's through AoE or with DoTs. I've tried reasoning, using math, or just being a dictator. Thus far, no approach has proven reliable.

My point was simply that marking targets almost always universally signals to DPS: "kill the enemies in this order". That's why I avoid marking targets. Other people have noted that it's possible to mark targets and also have DPS spread their DoT love, but it seems to be the exception and not the rule.

The first half of your post is irrelevant. If enmity is an issue, then nothing I said in my original post applies (please see the exceptions noted at the bottom).

For the majority of groups, those exceptions are not relevant (even if people seem to think they are).

[YuriRamona]

While I agree that the op's argument has almost nothing to do with his title, very few dots require their full duration in order to be efficient. Just throwing that out there.

Thanks for contributing. I would avoid arguing with that one, as it seems they're not really willing to debate the numbers (because apparently this means we "must see the largest possible numbers from each engagement to feel satisfaction"?).

It seems like almost blatantly obvious common sense that DoTs are the best tool in the damage toolbox, behind only AoE. I can see now that it's really not that apparent to most people.

[glen7187]

It seems like almost blatantly obvious common sense that DoTs are the best tool in the damage toolbox, behind only AoE. I can see now that it's really not that apparent to most people.

While I don't entirely disagree with that, I think it is kind of situational. As a Bard, I will DoT everything in the group but mostly because I want the Bloodletter procs. However, as a BLM, just because of cast time mostly, I feel like trying to keep my Thunder 3 up on all targets is slowing me down when I can be going through my ST rotation or AoE rotation. So in the case of my BLM, I wouldn't DoT everything.

EDIT: I know you said behind AoE, but I mean in a situation where it may be 2 or 3 mobs.

[Kyros]

If people actually viewed tanks as leaders, then obviously, I wouldn't have posted this, would I? I'm trying to get feedback on how to encourage DPS to maximize their damage, whether it's through AoE or with DoTs. I've tried reasoning, using math, or just being a dictator. Thus far, no approach has proven reliable.

It is because your math relies on a lot of wrong assumptions:

1) That Physical DPS's have infinite TP. Most AoE's and DoT's have higher-than-average TP consumptions. AoE/dotting everything is simply not sustainable.

2) That Physical DPS have no upkeep buffs. Both MNK and DRG rely heavily on keeping certain stacks up.

3) Less Finishing Abilities. Mercy Stroke and Misery's end will be proc'd less if the mobs die at around the same time.

4) Tanks that don't mark are usually terrible. You are asking your party to both go the extra mile and take a leap of faith for an insignificant increase in DPS; whereas you can't be bothered to do something as simple as marking? I wouldn't trust you to keep hate on one target, much less 3.

5) It complicates Healing DPS. "Maximizing DPS" involves the healer contributing. The longer 3 mobs are up the less time a healer has to contribute. The longer mobs are up has an inverse relationship to how often I can Cleric stance-dps as a healer. The faster the first mob goes down the more DPS I can contribute.


As a tank one of the first things you have to learn is to know which DPS is best doing what. Your SMN and BLM should be DoT/AoEing everything respectively, whereas your MNK and DRG should be focusing single targets down (Wish small exceptions). Asking the MNK/DRG to AoE everything is like asking your SMN/BLM to focus a single target: it's retarded. It makes me glad that most of your parties had the common sense to stick to what they do best.

Trying to maximize DPS is a noble goal, but what you are doing is not the right way. I'd sooner free space for my healer to help (And tell him he should be) than run my melee DPS's dry.

[Espon]

My reason for marking isn't about threat since people rarely pull off me. It's more so to reduce damage I'm taking since less enemies means less things hitting me. I prefer if people AoEing or multi-DoTing though, but any single target attacks should be focused on the lowest numbered target. Plus, if I'm taking less damage, it means the healer spend more time DPSing.

[Artemiz]

I think the OP has it the wrong way round, as a BLM marking targets increases my DPS, no doubt about it. It doesn't make a massive difference but it's still information I can use when judging which targets to re-aply DoT's too and sometimes which one I should use for my single target stance flip spells or thundercloud/firestarter procs. Then consider as a BLM I have a cast time so if a mob is at 5% health there is no point throwing a spell at it if the other DPS is a good single target job, it will be dead before my spell finishes and I'll stand there like a nugget interrupting myself. If I know what the next target for the tank is (I can't read minds and different tanks do things differently) then I could be doing something constructive to the next focus target instead.

A party that's all on the same page and attacks mobs in an intelligent and timely fashion will always run better than one that allows chaos to decend on it, marking makes the former far more likely so why not do it?

[Hekmatyar-Koko]

It's actually better for a melee to focus one target. We have to worry about positioning for our rotations and combos, having to then cycle through othet targets and move is just a hassle and lowers DPS. Also, focusing on a single target is more TP efficient.

People can come in with their fancy stats, etc, but this game isnt about flat damage.

Also, the quicker a mob dies, the less damage it does, the easier the healers job is, dont be an inconsiderate tank. You have just as equal, if not more important role in managing your health.

[Alkimi]

Also, the quicker a mob dies, the less damage it does, the easier the healers job is, dont be an inconsiderate tank. You have just as equal, if not more important role in managing your health.

Not to mention that the less healing spam that needs to be done, the more the healer can potentially throw in some dps, which throws the whole "DoTs yield higher damage" argument out the window.