PLD emnity VS. Medica spam.

[Naxyr]

I've had no problems tanking any content skill or gear wise until I did Garuda Ex a short while ago with a WHM. Now I will throw down some basic PLD knowledge to start so people know:

TL;DR, skip to the line with >>>>> if you don't care about PLD mechanics.

While shield oath does increase enmity by 30%, it also reduces dmg done by 20%. Only a few PLD abilities have what is called an enmity modifier. That means some abilities do more enmity x dmg than others.

Most PLDs will pull with shield lob, then fast blade > savage blade > rage of halone. Some will add in off the GCD abilities like circle of win and spirits within. I have mine macro'd to my rotation with a /wait line so it goes off between the GCDs. If I need to not have them macro'd (waking up sleeping mobs with circle of win, silencing with spirits within on T2 for trash, etc) then I have the base abilities I can swap on my bars.

So the enmity modifiers, right? Shield Lob, Spirits Within, and Fast Blade do not have modifiers. So with shield oath up, they do dmg x 130%. Abilities with modifiers (they say additional effect: increased enmity") will do more threat. Those are Savage Blade (x6), and Rage of Halone (x10). There is more theory crafted math somewhere with more numbers but this isn't the point.

>>>>> The first ability we use to generate threat and start our combo, even with off the GCD abilities, does not generate enough threat to keep aggro off of you if you have Regen + Medica II HoT + Spamming Cure II or Medica AS I'M PULLING. Keyword is right at the pull. Not 2 seconds after or before. A crit heal will seal the deal with you dying unless I provoke but that has a 40 second cooldown. Oh, and since a lot of people don't seem to understand provoke, I will explain that as well:

It puts us at +1 enmity over whoever had the highest enmity when it hit. So we also have to hit the mob right after we do it. Know what that means? It means it's like starting the pull over again but with everyone already engaged with dots, hots, healing, and attacks. If the mob pulled over to you and is out of our melee range, we have to shield lob and try to get in range. Provoking does not immediately make you safe. If we provoke and you get a crit heal, well damnit, have fun.

There is no reason for this madness. Regen maybe to help ease the initial dmg but spamming cures as I'm pulling when no one has taken dmg is a no-no. I have not established threat with my measly shield lob > fast blade > spirits within. This is not a skill issue. This is low enmity generation at the start that ramps up.

Once I've gotten in at least a savage blade and going into rage of halone, threat is solid. A fully combo'd rage of halone produces ridiculous threat.

The whole point of this is to better educate WHMs since they seem unaware that they also produce a metric ton of enmity.

[greenhope]

So the enmity modifiers, right? Shield Lob, Spirits Within, and Fast Blade do not have modifiers. So with shield oath up, they do dmg x 130%. Abilities with modifiers (they say additional effect: increased enmity") will do more threat. Those are Savage Blade (x6), and Rage of Halone (x10).

Fail. If you want to talk about game mechanics, please research more, Shield Lob will generate about 3x enmity, same as Savage Blade, it's also write in skill description Additional Effect: Increased enmity

Also about the Medica problem when Garuda's Sisters spawn, either you tank style is not good enough (you don't prepare Halone combo when sisters spawn) or healer don't know use Shoud of Saints when they got mob aggro from tank. Only need one of them know their roles and problem will be solve.

[Mister-Wonderful]

Fail. If you want to talk about game mechanics, please research more, Shield Lob will generate about 3x enmity, same as Savage Blade, it's also write in skill description Additional Effect: Increased enmity

Also about the Medica problem when Garuda's Sisters spawn, either you tank style is not good enough (you don't prepare Halone combo when sisters spawn) or healer don't know use Shoud of Saints when they got mob aggro from tank. Only need one of them know their roles and problem will be solve.

This /10char

[Naxyr]

My bad on the shield lob. Not about research. I knew that but derped out. I was frustrated when I posted.

However I didn't mention when the sisters spawn. There's a delay when they go active anyway. My point was on the pull when healers spam large heals for no reason.

[SirTaint]

Snap hate on PLD is pretty simple. Prepare Savage/Halone, experience will help you there. But sisters spawning is not random and its not instant. When you see "Die,Die,Die" your next action needs to be swift or if swift is prepped it needs to be savage. Run to where your sister spawns do the next action in the combo (savage or halone), SW, then run to your position. A shield lob may be necessary as you move but most of the time its not.

I'd personally prefer my WHMs to be aggressive cure spammers. PLD has ample emn tools and a dead DD normally makes things hairy.

[whiskeybravo]

I occasionally see whm using medica 2 like sch uses succor before the pull. Whm have enough aggro problems as is, they shouldn't intentionally be starting a fight with overheals ticking away on everyone.

The worst in my experience is Titan HM and the T2 enrage. (though I think my food fell off when tanking T2 that time and lost accuracy). SO many tanks lose aggro to whm in Titan HM.

[greenhope]

My bad on the shield lob. Not about research. I knew that but derped out. I was frustrated when I posted.

However I didn't mention when the sisters spawn. There's a delay when they go active anyway. My point was on the pull when healers spam large heals for no reason.

The bad knowledge about Shield Lob will lead you rarely use Shield Lob after first pull, that's wrong! A good and exp. tank in Garuda EX will know when sisters spawn so a Halone (5x enimity) on sister then shield lob while running to tank position that make even two Medica II from two WHM is nothing. It's also apply in Tornado phase when OT must grab one sister and spiny same time, with Halone on a sister, you will have a lots time to go and find where spiny come, provoke and Shield Lob it then switch back target to sister and shield lob again until you ran into tank position.

The other tank fail in Garuda is most tanker thinking only call one Provoke is enough to get back Spiny's aggro and don't know Spiny mechanic is auto generate enmity on first target, if you don't throw a shield lob/tomahawk after Provoke, Spiny will get back to first target after a tick.

[Naxyr]

The bad knowledge about Shield Lob will lead you rarely use Shield Lob after first pull, that's wrong! A good and exp. tank in Garuda EX will know when sisters spawn so a Halone (5x enimity) on sister then shield lob while running to tank position that make even two Medica II from two WHM is nothing. It's also apply in Tornado phase when OT must grab one sister and spiny same time, with Halone on a sister, you will have a lots time to go and find where spiny come, provoke and Shield Lob it then switch back target to sister and shield lob again until you ran into tank position.

SO again I say, nothing in that post is reference to when sister's spawn. It was in reference to before a pull on any fight.

[Naxyr]

The first ability we use to generate threat and start our combo, even with off the GCD abilities, does not generate enough threat to keep aggro off of you if you have Regen + Medica II HoT + Spamming Cure II or Medica AS I'M PULLING. Keyword is right at the pull. Not 2 seconds after or before. A crit heal will seal the deal with you dying unless I provoke but that has a 40 second cooldown.

Since no one seems to have read the post.

[SirTaint]

the T2 enrage. (though I think my food fell off when tanking T2 that time and lost accuracy). SO many tanks lose aggro to whm in Titan HM.

You don't tank during Enrage. Sword Oath and DPS best you can.