A (bad ?) way of tanking...

[Messenger]

I don't see any problem with that... The tank just want to show off his gear upclose

[Warrlordd]

Best action to take is to pull mob, establish aggro, and remain as still as possible so ur melee dps can tear them apart. other than that no reason to pull back THAT far unless a patrol is coming. in which case he should probably tell you...

[Varhaatus]

I only pull mobs back when I run Darkhold, a lot of casters there and good to pull them back and round a corner.

If your tank is LoSing casters this is good sign he knows what he is doing.

[Degaulace]

Even on patrolls you can usually have the mobs down before more mobs come.

Exactly. I really don't understand why they do that, and it's a speed run most of the time, so no time to cacth my kb and ask them about that...
But I'll try to know, next times.

Most of the time tanks pull to a spot to avoid unnecessary adds, which will cause wipes.

Does this threat of catching adds exist in EVERY dungeon, in EVERY situation, even when you're facing an isolated mob ?

OP,
U are either exaggerating or u are very new, not ALL tanks do what u claim they are doing

To be honest, I see this "run back" technique for about two weeks now. Never seen before.
But I see it almost each time I do my daily low-level dungeons duty roulette. No exagerating here.

I don't see any problem with that... The tank just want to show off his gear upclose

I laughed.

Best action to take is to pull mob, establish aggro, and remain as still as possible so ur melee dps can tear them apart. other than that no reason to pull back THAT far unless a patrol is coming. in which case he should probably tell you...

Yeah. As I said in FR section, there's no a thousand way to play for each class. But the tanks I talk about don't establish agro. They provoke a mob (with one of their range attacks), and then run back immediately to us. The healer and I (and the other dps if he's a range one) are always forced to walk back a long way. The melee dps have to run back too, as he followed the tank and did not expect him to run back...

[Zfz]

But I see it almost each time I do my daily low-level dungeons duty roulette. No exagerating here.

In that case you should state it in your first post, because it's hard to find end-game tanks do that. In low-level dungeons, it's possible they're still learning. In which case your attitude that its "STUPID" is not gonna help. Simply offer advice.

--

Yes there are places where it's simply better to pull packs back. Prime examples are Aurum Vale and a few places in Stone Vigil. Although it's much less so in Stone Vigil because by the time you get to the patrols, the tank probably has a good idea of what the group is capable of. (Yes we tanks do evaluate the firepower of each group unconsciously.)

In other places, there might be issues where it's more beneficial to bring packs back. For example:

Haukke Manor (normal) end room with the bracelet coffer. The best way to tank this place is to pull, then exit the room and use LoS to bring all the targets outside. This is two main benefits: (1) all targets will now withing Flash/Overpower range. (2) During the exit the WHM or BLM can already start with Repose/Sleep, if the tank is less well geared.

Aurum Vale in the room with the 2 big+1 small diremites, 2 wandering ghosts, and 2 of those floating jellyfish thingies. The big diremites cast their straight-line AoE as far as 20 yards away, almost immediately after you pull, they will cast that, unless you run all the way back through the tunnel to force them to come inside. This is just cleaner than having the small diremite already in melee while the 2 bigger ones are casting that AoE right at your party members---and from my experience most of them will not dodge it. Then you have the healers trying to heal and DDs just firing on anything that they can see, and disaster ensues.

And finally, one thing I've noticed a lot of DDs do in this game: they don't wait. They want to attack the second you pull. They don't care if the pack is spread out, they don't care there's a patrol already in sight (in fact there's simply too many of those ranged DDs who will stand in the path of a patrol even after I mark their head and type "patrol coming"---they never wonder why they got marked), they don't care the tank is running back to avoid the environmental AoE (e.g. Haukke HM), they just want to pew pew and they will do it right now. You're a shit tank if you can't output maximum enmity within 1 GCD of pulling.

So to the OP, just wait. I know DoTs take time. But you should just wait until the tank is in place before you attack. "In-place" means in melee range.

Saying the tank shouldn't move because when he's moving, you're attacking, is absolutely STUPID because the tank moves for a reason, and you should wait until he has stopped moving unless you are 100% on the enmity situation and you know you won't over-taunt the targets.

In the end it comes down to this: there are times when it's better to move the packs. And when you see a spread out pack, the tank almost always have to round them up first. Stop trying to pew pew the moment the tank pulls.

Another thing I noticed lately is that there are some healers and ranged DDs who love to move over the tank once the tank has settled in. Even if the tank is tanking the pack where they were---those people just want to be ahead. And when the group is spread around in a perfect semi-circle around you...hey, you can be sure I ain't gonna point those AoEs at the healer. If anyone it'll be the BLM/SMNs getting it. It's also why I end up with my back against a corner/wall so often these times. People look like they're playing this game to make my life difficult. They want all the nice vantage points to get a view on the battle, yet they force me back against a wall so I have to turn my camera away from patrols etc.

Ah...this is turning into a rant.

Anyways, there are times when it's better to pull back, and most of that time for me, is when the party is being STUPID so I have to force them to do the clever thing. A clever group usually will have no trouble pre-sleeping patrols or even Shadowbind (yes it can be very useful if both the tank and the ARC knows how to respond properly).

[Degaulace]

Agreed with almost everything you said.
Just one thing : as a SMN, I'm not forced to wait, as I won't take the hate with one or two dots. I place my dots on the mob the tank provoke, and by the time the tank packs the mobs and build enough hate, my three dots are placed and I can expand them to three mobs around.
It's true other dps should wait a little before attacking, but I think SMN are not in this case. Well, it's just my POV, I may be wrong...

Besides, my first target is ALWAYS the tank's first target, which is logical : ALL the dps should attack the target the tank attack, right ?
But very often, the tank switch target, for unknown reason (and not to re-take the lost hate, for instance), while I keep on bursting on my first target. Therefore I end on taking the hate of this mob (or the other dps take it, if it's a BLM).

Saying the tank shouldn't move because when he's moving, you're attacking, is absolutely STUPID because the tank moves for a reason, and you should wait until he has stopped moving unless you are 100% on the enmity situation and you know you won't over-taunt the targets.

I'm not supposed to know he will rush to the mob, then run back to us. I cast my dots on the mob the tank attack, as soon as the tank becomes the target of this mob. 2,59sec (casting time of the first dot I use) is more than enough for the mobs pack around the tank so the tank can use Flash (or to pack the mobs as to use Overpower on the whole pack).
Unless the tank run back, for no reason (there's not always a reason, like in AV or the other example you talk of : I never run back, personnally, when I tank in earlier levels dungeons, and everything goes right. I just did Dzemael and AV, and the tank didn't use the run back when not needed, and all goes well).

Anyways, there are times when it's better to pull back, and most of that time for me, is when the party is being STUPID so I have to force them to do the clever thing. A clever group usually will have no trouble pre-sleeping patrols or even Shadowbind (yes it can be very useful if both the tank and the ARC knows how to respond properly).

I never use the SMN AoE bind skill (don't know the name in english), because my teammates are always stupid and AoE attack the pack, or - more often - attack a different mob than the tank.
I only use it against Garuda (normal), when she summons her feathers.
Too bad, because it's a really useful skill, indeed...

Another thing I noticed lately is that there are some healers and ranged DDs who love to move over the tank once the tank has settled in.

Never seen this kind of behavior, but it's really quite stupid, you're right ! O.o

[Nicodareus]

It really doesn't matter how effective or justified it is. Simply put, your a DPS and you are not supposed to DPS until tank is set and starts rotations. If your casting as soon as the tank tags a mob for a pull then your at fault regardless of what the tank does.

The tank (right or wrong) has the role of placing the mobs where they will be killed. Any action prior to placement or setup by tank puts you as a DPS in the wrong. It sucks sometimes with unknown tanks but that's been a DPS rule in mmo for over/about 15 years.

[Bixby]

To be honest, I see this "run back" technique for about two weeks now. Never seen before.
But I see it almost each time I do my daily low-level dungeons duty roulette. No exagerating here.

Long enough for very casual players (the kind who wouldn't know what they're doing) who just got this game for Christmas to level up to dungeon level. I can imagine a world where a trend like this could start. Haven't seen it myself, but I haven't been doing roulettes every day.

So what's the reaction been in the FR forums? Anybody over there seeing this behavior as much as you? Any of them have an explanation?

[Degaulace]

In the FR section, some agree that this behavior is stupid, others try to explain it taking examples (poisonous floor in AV, groups too near from others, etc.).
But it's mainly people who defend the über difficult and criticized role of the tank, or who suppose I'm a bad DD...

Long enough for very casual players (the kind who wouldn't know what they're doing) who just got this game for Christmas to level up to dungeon level.

Heck...I didn't think about X-Mas. It may be that.

Simply put, your a DPS and you are not supposed to DPS until tank is set and starts rotations. If your casting as soon as the tank tags a mob for a pull then your at fault regardless of what the tank does.

As I said before, I'm not supposed to know that the tank will rush and run back. When I tank, I NEVER do that, because it's not needed for placement. I, at the contrary, tend to go trough the mobs, in order to place them so they show their backs to my mates. Easier for DRG and MNK, and no risk of cast interrupt for mages.
And if you prefer to run back (for Overpower, for instance, or because there's a bunch of mobs too near ahead), just a few steps is enough, no need to run back a thousand yards and to place the pack behind the rest of the team. It's THIS behavior I blame the tanks for.

[Claire_Pendragon]

Trying to know why YOUR tanks do it, is best to ask them.

It COULD be for the reasons mentioned, but if you REALLY want to know, ASK THEM.


Also, having 2 seconds removed from your DPS isnt the end of the world.
You could auto attack, and still win trash pulls.