[dev1079][Poll] Do you want CAPPED dungeons, or uncapped?

[Rowyne]

I liked how you put up Aion as an example. That game was nuts to level 40! Then it got me annoyed because it was too PvP oriented.

Soooo true.

[VydarrTyr]

What is being suggested is a sort of level sync, a player level scaling. So, if you're level 50, you'll enter with the stats and abilities of (let's say) a level 30.

In FFXI, the nickname was 'level capped'.

Anyway, I think capping/level-sync would be a good idea. Normally I don't mind the idea of escorting lowbies through dungeons on high-level characters, but since this is a multi-class game, I think there would be a whole bunch of self-roflpwning for loot to use on your lower level classes.

While this would make it possible for higher level players to participate, it would create its own set of problems. For example, as TheVedis has said, it would likely take months for SE to develop level-synch for this game.

And considering the fact that one of this game's unique characteristics is cross-class abilities, they'd have to figure out some way to handle it. If I go in as a r50 Thm, I assume I won't be able to use my r50 Thm skills. But can I use my r50 Conj skills on my Thm? Or should I be unable to use any skills greater than r30? Will I have to buy and equip r30 weapons? Will I have to buy and equip an entire set of r30 gear? If so, wouldn't that create an entirely new set of inventory space problems? And if I suddenly couldn't use half my Thm skills, my macros would be rendered useless. So now I'd have to make an entirely new set of macros for a lower level Thm. (This may change, but) Raise/Resurrect is r38. If I can't equip that spell, would anybody that dies have to return to the nearest aetheryte, which is outside the dungeon?

They can fix all that stuff, but it will likely take months to do so. I'd prefer that we get the content now. If players want to do it on easy mode, they can. If players want to be challenged, they can. And if SE wants to implement level-synch, they can do that at some point in the future. But I'd prefer to have something to do to keep me playing the game until they implement it.

[Rentahamster]

And considering the fact that one of this game's unique characteristics is cross-class abilities, they'd have to figure out some way to handle it. If I go in as a r50 Thm, I assume I won't be able to use my r50 Thm skills. But can I use my r50 Conj skills on my Thm? Or should I be unable to use any skills greater than r30? Will I have to buy and equip r30 weapons? Will I have to buy and equip an entire set of r30 gear? If so, wouldn't that create an entirely new set of inventory space problems? And if I suddenly couldn't use half my Thm skills, my macros would be rendered useless. So now I'd have to make an entirely new set of macros for a lower level Thm. (This may change, but) Raise/Resurrect is r38. If I can't equip that spell, would anybody that dies have to return to the nearest aetheryte, which is outside the dungeon?

Uhh...you're playing this game right now, aren't you?

I can already use any skills that I want on any rank class that I want. I already use rank 46 Lancer skill on my rank 30 gladiator. Plus, we can use any piece of gear we want at any rank, regardless of optimal rank. We can already do all of that.

If your R50 THM were to go into a R30-capped dungeon, then it would just be just like you were a R30 THM, i.e. all your THM skills from rank 32+ are not available anymore, but everything else is the same.

[VydarrTyr]

Uhh...you're playing this game right now, aren't you?

Yes.

I can already use any skills that I want on any rank class that I want. I already use rank 46 Lancer skill on my rank 30 gladiator. Plus, we can use any piece of gear we want at any rank, regardless of optimal rank. We can already do all of that.

It's true that you can equip any piece you want (currently, I believe there are plans to change this). But if I try to use my r50 axe on a r30 Marauder, it will be worse than using a r30 axe. And if I equip r50 armor on my r30 Marauder, it will also be gimped (although not as much as the weapon), and it will degrade significantly faster than r30 armor.

So you would need at least two sets of weapons, and likely two sets of armor. Again, that would exacerbate inventory space problems that players are already complaining about.

If your R50 THM were to go into a R30-capped dungeon, then it would just be just like you were a R30 THM, i.e. all your THM skills from rank 32+ are not available anymore, but everything else is the same.

Ok. So that's one issue that you've potentially resolved, in the sense that you've decided how it will be fixed. But that still leaves coding it into the game. And it still leaves several other issues.

Again, I don't have problems with a soft-level cap as a concept. I'd still prefer that they not do it. But if they did, I wouldn't bellyache too much.

But I do have problems with there not being content in the game. I think the game needs content now. So I'd prefer that we get content now, and SE can decide whether to do level-synch later.

[Rowyne]

While this would make it possible for higher level players to participate, it would create its own set of problems. For example, as TheVedis has said, it would likely take months for SE to develop level-synch for this game.

And considering the fact that one of this game's unique characteristics is cross-class abilities, they'd have to figure out some way to handle it. If I go in as a r50 Thm, I assume I won't be able to use my r50 Thm skills. But can I use my r50 Conj skills on my Thm? Or should I be unable to use any skills greater than r30? Will I have to buy and equip r30 weapons? Will I have to buy and equip an entire set of r30 gear? If so, wouldn't that create an entirely new set of inventory space problems? And if I suddenly couldn't use half my Thm skills, my macros would be rendered useless. So now I'd have to make an entirely new set of macros for a lower level Thm. (This may change, but) Raise/Resurrect is r38. If I can't equip that spell, would anybody that dies have to return to the nearest aetheryte, which is outside the dungeon?

They can fix all that stuff, but it will likely take months to do so. I'd prefer that we get the content now. If players want to do it on easy mode, they can. If players want to be challenged, they can. And if SE wants to implement level-synch, they can do that at some point in the future. But I'd prefer to have something to do to keep me playing the game until they implement it.

I agree that the idea is a bit complex from a player standpoint (meaning having to remember you don't have all those high level skills, and I do agree it would need to scale down your gear so we don't go back to hauling around multiple armor sets again). But considering FFXI did capping all day long, I can't see that it would take them long to figure out how to code and implement it.

FFXI capped pretty much all their instanced content. You see an example of this in the game very early on when you do your Rank 2-3 mission to take down the dragon. It caps you at level 20.

Of course, I heard they took the caps out of the game (sometime after I left, which was 2008). It does facilitate moving new people through years of content in a seasoned MMO, so I can see why they did it. I bet a lot of FFXI vets raged about it, though.

Anyway, I think a cap is a good idea. At the same time, I'm not greatly opposed to it not happening, especially if it meant that it would take longer for us to get this summer's updates out. But in a perfect world, I think it would be ideal. At the very least, I'd like to someday see it as an option.

[VydarrTyr]

Of course, I heard they took the caps out of the game (sometime after I left, which was 2008). It does facilitate moving new people through years of content in a seasoned MMO, so I can see why they did it. I bet a lot of FFXI vets raged about it, though.

Well, if these boards are any indication, there's going to be rage no matter what they do.

Anyway, I think a cap is a good idea. At the same time, I'm not greatly opposed to it not happening, especially if it meant that it would take longer for us to get this summer's updates out. But in a perfect world, I think it would be ideal. At the very least, I'd like to someday see it as an option.

Totally reasonable. I'm not sure that I agree, but if it was implemented, I wouldn't start rolling around on the ground and get my skirt over my head. (Well, not more than normal anyway ).

And I've got to say I'm in favor of it as an option. I'm usually in favor of giving players more options. But like you, I'd just prefer that we get content as soon as possible.

[Frisque]

They can fix all that stuff, but it will likely take months to do so. I'd prefer that we get the content now. If players want to do it on easy mode, they can. If players want to be challenged, they can. And if SE wants to implement level-synch, they can do that at some point in the future. But I'd prefer to have something to do to keep me playing the game until they implement it.

Agreed.

My stance: options = good. Restrictions = suck.

[MeowyWowie]

Again not everything is about YOU. If all your classes are at 50 but you want to help a friend lower level without ruining the learning experience and the challenge for them, what do you do?

if you are 50 running a 25 through the dungeon you ARE ruining the challenge and learning experience for them. you cut out the whole point of GROUP content by having them clear things without an actual group. If you just want to be run through dungeons by higher level ppl thats lame.

I think you missed Perrin's point. He was asking how you could help them with a R50 class without ruining their learning experience.

The answer is obvious, capped dungeons. R50 can help lower level players instead of doing it all for them this way.

[Shika]

I say please leave them uncapped.. I like the sense that I can solo, duo , or trio them at a higher level..

Making the capped will make it like ffxi, which would cause waiting for party members and such... no thanks.

Players are not going to be able to solo, duo or trio the dungeons: "Rank 25+ raids will require four players to enter, and rank 45+ raids will require a full party of 8". Won't be able to DC from the party on purpose to try and solo it either I don't think as they have already stated that if you DC and re-log then you will re-join the party. Unless your other party members are prepared to not log back in for an hour! lol

Anyway, I voted for having it capped. Although I see both sides of the argument, there is no real compromise I can see to make everyone happy but the main argument in the other thread seems to concern not having a challenge if rank 50s are allowed into a low level dungeon. So, although it takes freedom of choice away from players to make up their own minds, lets cap them and get it over and done with!

Cap the 25+ dungeon from 25-45 maybe with scaled content appropriate (perhaps also helping with more replay value for the lower level dungeon and gear because of the bigger range in ranks/levels that can enter), and the 45+ dungeon from 45-50 with extremely challenging content (kind of endgame but not really if you see what I mean). ?

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

I can see the other sides points as well, but if the r30 dungeon is capped, I will simply ignore it.