Plan to remove benefit for failing leves?

[Jaide]

We're missing out on gil, faction credits, and marks by not completing leves. That's enough for me. Leave the leves as they are, thanks.

How much of that really matters? Gil falls out of the sky... anything I've seen as rewards so far for faction leves I can buy with gil... and after you get the few skills you care about marks no longer matter.

The fact of the matter is that it's still broken game design. Anyone who argues otherwise just doesn't want to give up the benefits they receive for exploiting it.

[Molly_Millions]

How much of that really matters? Gil falls out of the sky... anything I've seen as rewards so far for faction leves I can buy with gil... and after you get the few skills you care about marks no longer matter.

The fact of the matter is that it's still broken game design. Anyone who argues otherwise just doesn't want to give up the benefits they receive for exploiting it.

Well, when you fail all your leves, gil does not fall out of the sky. Try it, you'll see. Some of us would rather try 'the old fashioned way' for our faction gear so buying it is not an option. And lastly, if you fail all your leves, you can easily get to 50 and not have enough marks for all the skills from that class.

So I'll say it again, we're loosing out on enough already by failing leves, we don't need more punishment for doing so.

[Jaide]

Well, when you fail all your leves, gil does not fall out of the sky. Try it, you'll see. Some of us would rather try 'the old fashioned way' for our faction gear so buying it is not an option. And lastly, if you fail all your leves, you can easily get to 50 and not have enough marks for all the skills from that class.

So I'll say it again, we're loosing out on enough already by failing leves, we don't need more punishment for doing so.

How would you be further punished if the leve rewards were balanced, removing the incentive to fail them on purpose? In fact if they removed the incentive then you would end up much more gil, faction points, and marks. Clearly the SP reward is much more valuable than whatever else you get from completing the leves or you wouldn't see just about everyone doing it. Again, a system that rewards people who TRY to fail is broken and needs to be fixed.

[Starlord]

How would you be further punished if the leve rewards were balanced, removing the incentive to fail them on purpose? In fact if they removed the incentive then you would end up much more gil, faction points, and marks. Clearly the SP reward is much more valuable than whatever else you get from completing the leves or you wouldn't see just about everyone doing it. Again, a system that rewards people who TRY to fail is broken and needs to be fixed.

lol Jaide, they just don't want to give up the "easy mode" instead of doing it the right way and do what leves were ment to do in the first place "Complete your mission". Failing your mission yet still get rewarded by substantial sp? What kind of Level design is this? I agree don't blame the players blame to poor design.

However, even with the poor design people still abuse it to the 5th degree, and what I like to know is and my question to all of you:

Do you find Failing leves enjoyable?

and

When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

[Altano]

However, even with the poor design people still abuse it to the 5th degree, and what I like to know is and my question to all of you:

Do you find Failing leves enjoyable?

and

When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

I have two answers for you:

Yes and yes.

I love the complaints from people who object to ranking up in this way on some "ethical" grounds and get all upset when either a) they aren't ranking up as fast as others or b) other people don't want to party with them because they don't have the most beneficial means to rank up.

There are plenty of systems in MMOs where failing an objective can be planned for various benefits. I ask FFXI vets how many times they went into some of the endgame events with the pure objective of farming gear and other item drops, rather than actually completing the objective of the zone. "But that's different! They're not getting ranks!" It's not as different as you might think, actually. If you have a small-ish FFXI Dynamis shell, for example, good luck getting the most gear drops in Xarcabard if you actually intend to kill DL.

Aren't you "supposed" to finish out that quest? Sure, especially if you conceive of it as a ridiculously long 3-hour leve, which isn't a huge stretch. But people don't always finish the main objective. Why? Because it takes away from the good stuff they can get and the good feeling of finishing it simply isn't worth the trade off when people want tangible rewards. Is that exploiting? No. Is it a poor game design? Not even that. It's allowing players in an MMO to have a bit of flexibility in the way they play the game and design their own objectives to an extent along the way.

[Molly_Millions]

Do you find Failing leves enjoyable?

and

When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

Let me answer these because as anyone on Fabul will agree, my LS does this more than any other.

What I find enjoyable is gaining ranks as efficiently as possible with friends. If that's by completing leves, failing them, or just grinding doesn't matter to me at all. If they balance leves by either making them impossible to fail and keep, or they change the bonus structure then we'll find another way.

Do I feel accomplished when I get another class to 50? Yes, that's a mind numbing number of times to repeat the same leve. So yes I do feel a sense of accomplishment when I move on to the next class.

[AngryNixon]

...What I find enjoyable is gaining ranks as efficiently as possible with friends...

You guys are efficiency nerds too I see.

...When you hit R50 do you feel accomplished when you reach that rank?

I don't feel accomplished when I hit cap in any MMO. Getting from 1 to cap is solely a function of time. Some games it's more, some games it's less. I feel satisfied that it's over with, but "accomplished" is definitely not the word I'd use.

Using Molly Millions' logic though I suppose I could say there is a minor sense of accomplishment in how efficiently I get from 1 to cap.

[Altano]

I don't feel accomplished when I hit cap in any MMO. Getting from 1 to cap is solely a function of time. Some games it's more, some games it's less. I feel satisfied that it's over with, but "accomplished" is definitely not the word I'd use.

Using Molly Millions' logic though I suppose I could say there is a minor sense of accomplishment in how efficiently I get from 1 to cap.

That might be a better way to phrase it, I agree.

[Rentahamster]

Using Molly Millions' logic though I suppose I could say there is a minor sense of accomplishment in how efficiently I get from 1 to cap.

There is.

Being efficient means you understand the game system well enough to utilize it to its greatest potential. And the ability to do so strongly correlates with player skill.

[Jaide]

Let me answer these because as anyone on Fabul will agree, my LS does this more than any other.

What I find enjoyable is gaining ranks as efficiently as possible with friends. If that's by completing leves, failing them, or just grinding doesn't matter to me at all. If they balance leves by either making them impossible to fail and keep, or they change the bonus structure then we'll find another way.

Do I feel accomplished when I get another class to 50? Yes, that's a mind numbing number of times to repeat the same leve. So yes I do feel a sense of accomplishment when I move on to the next class.

Just wanted to reiterate that I personally don't blame the players for doing this. It's the nature of the game for players to find the most efficient way to level up. It's SE's fault that they implemented a broken system which happens to make that failing objectives rather than completing them. Really all I wanted to hear was that they were planning to fix that system.

In the end it's better for everyone because then people wont feel like they have to miss out on gil/marks/faction and the rest aren't getting barred from leve parties because they haven't been manipulating the system.