Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[Perrin_Aybarra]

I'm sorry. You are kidding yourself on this one. No one gives you credit in WoW for running the Deadmines or whatever the hell it is called. It is a mid-level dungeon and you are going to get mid-level credit for beating it.

that is because wow is with the no-cap design. Old content is old and no one cares. It's just shallow content upon shallow content. even old raids are just shallow content and doing a level 60 raid on your level 85 char is not even worth the achievement it gives you, no one cares. WoW is also one of the most boring game when it comes to end game content since there is nothing worth doing except the new content in the newest patch, all you got before you can just throw in the bin and not care. They did something right with heroics and special drops from them, but it's still shallow and limited since it gets outdated when the max level is raised. One easy exemple is Karazhan, that raid was really fun in TBC expansion, like a lot of fun. Now every new player that comes either doesn't know where this raid is or never went in at the proper level nor should they bother because what you get from is it tossable the next level.


Thats is what we are trying so hard to avoid here. We don't want SE to just throw shallow content upon shallow content at us. We want it so every content is a challenge to everyone at any point during the game.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

that is because wow is with the no-cap design. Old content is old and no one cares. It's just shallow content upon shallow content. even old raids are just shallow content and doing a level 60 raid on your level 85 char is not even worth the achievement it gives you, no one cares. WoW is also one of the most boring game when it comes to end game content since there is nothing worth doing except the new content in the newest patch, all you got before you can just throw in the bin and not care. They did something right with heroics and special drops from them, but it's still shallow and limited since it gets outdated when the max level is raised. One easy exemple is Karazhan, that raid was really fun in TBC expansion, like a lot of fun. Now every new player that comes either doesn't know where this raid is or never went in at the proper level nor should they bother because what you get from is it tossable the next level.


Thats is what we are trying so hard to avoid here. We don't want SE to just throw shallow content upon shallow content at us. We want it so every content is a challenge to everyone at any point during the game.

Name one piece of Mid-Level content in FFXI that was viewed as just as big an accomplishment as FFXI endgame.

[Alaltus]

Name one piece of Mid-Level content in FFXI that was viewed as just as big an accomplishment as FFXI endgame.

Specifically? there were alot, before the level cap was raised to 90 Kraken club a weapon obtained from a lv 60 bcnm was about the most expensive item for many years so much so that some players made themselves with it. Simply because it had a very high number of attack rounds and very very very low drop rate, the boss wasnt a push over either.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Specifically? there were alot, before the level cap was raised to 90 Kraken club a weapon obtained from a lv 60 bcnm was about the most expensive item for many years so much so that some players made themselves with it. Simply because it had a very high number of attack rounds and very very very low drop rate, the boss wasnt a push over either.

I wouldn't classify rank 60 content as mid-level content for what was a rank 75 max level. Even so, it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate?

[Alaltus]

I wouldn't classify rank 60 content as mid-level content for what was a rank 75 max level. Even so, it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate?

The rarity and the uses people put it to. Dark knights 2hour adds a set damage to each swing whilst losing health for each hit, it meant alot of healing but it was a effective way of taking down some of the hardest nms. SE chose to put Souleater(drk 2hr) resistance on absolute virtue(ffxi's hardest monster for a long time) because players finally managed to beat it with a large number of drks weilding them.

[Rentahamster]

it seemed that the rarity of the kraken club is what made it so big, not necessarily the challenge of the BCNM. Would that be accurate?

Usefulness of the Kraken Club made it valuable.
Rarity of Kraken Club made it valuable.

The challenge of the BCNM increased the risk of doing it, which is necessary to have if you want to earn as good an item as the Kraken Club and maintain proper risk vs reward balance.

Hard content should be rewarded with good items.

Good items should have to be earned through effort and skill.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

Usefulness of the Kraken Club made it valuable.
Rarity of Kraken Club made it valuable.

The challenge of the BCNM increased the risk of doing it, which is necessary to have if you want to earn as good an item as the Kraken Club and maintain proper risk vs reward balance.

Hard content should be rewarded with good items.

Good items should have to be earned through effort and skill.

Here is the problem I have with this example: You are using the "Kraken Club" as your example of challenge equaling to the reward, but no one has told me anything about the difficulty of the BCNM that was fought to attain it. How hard was it? Really?

[Perrin_Aybarra]

Here is the problem I have with this example: You are using the "Kraken Club" as your example of challenge equaling to the reward, but no one has told me anything about the difficulty of the BCNM that was fought to attain it. How hard was it? Really?

I did go back some post up.

And will add that getting the item to gain access to the BCNMs was a grind too so that added to the value of the items obtained in them. But to be fair not the point of your question, just read my post up.

Edit: here made it easier for you:

Maybe they were, that is not the point. I don't think anyone here suggested that FFXI was perfect and without flaw. Those BCNMs could have been dungeons (like the ones being put in FFXIV) and since the challenge would have been greater and the effort to go through longer and greater, the drop could have been more frequent.

So yes you are right in saying that the rarity of the item made it valuable altho it was better than other items as well. But taking the BCNMs concept and putting it to dungeons use would be far superior than just shallow dungeons for SP... They can improve the leves and behest and make party grind viable for SP and give dungeons a real meaning, therefore requiring a cap to prevent abuse.

[Rentahamster]

Here is the problem I have with this example: You are using the "Kraken Club" as your example of challenge equaling to the reward, but no one has told me anything about the difficulty of the BCNM that was fought to attain it. How hard was it? Really?

The point is, that without the level cap, it wouldn't have been as hard as it was.

The battle would have been much easier if you could enter the BCNM fight as a level 75.

[Physic]

Here is the problem I have with this example: You are using the "Kraken Club" as your example of challenge equaling to the reward, but no one has told me anything about the difficulty of the BCNM that was fought to attain it. How hard was it? Really?

hmmm it was actually.... kind of difficult it was a 3 man bcnm with a fairly strong monster, however, it could be duoed by a decently skilled mage team via kiting, sleeping, nuking etc. Without a cap though, it would have been laughable.