Confirmation of Uncapped Raids. Confirmation of a terrible decision.

[Rentahamster]

I am in agreement with the cap, but more importantly an optional cap. So you can have your challenge if you want or not but doing it under cap would bring greater rewards so there is actually a reason to do it. Yes the challenge itself is good, but you won't get anyone to do it the harder way if there is no candy at the end, that's for sure.

Yes. An optional cap would be perfectly fine as long as the rewards scaled to the amount of effort you did.

i.e.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 30 character, you get really good loot rewards.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character, you get normal stuff.

[TheVedis]

Yes. An optional cap would be perfectly fine as long as the rewards scaled to the amount of effort you did.

i.e.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 30 character, you get really good loot rewards.

If you run through a rank 30 dungeon as a rank 50 character, you get normal stuff.

no
everyone who runs it should have an equal chance at equal rewards, period


wasnt this discusses MANY months ago in all the casual vs hardcore stuff? how quickly we forgot that

[Rentahamster]

no
everyone who runs it should have an equal chance at equal rewards, period


wasnt this discusses MANY months ago in all the casual vs hardcore stuff? how quickly we forgot that

This isn't about time spent (hardcore vs casual) at all. There is a 60 minute time limit.

This is about balancing rewards to be proportional to the difficulty.

This is the same reasoning behind why killing fat dodos at rank 50 gives you 10 SP instead of 300.

[TheVedis]

This isn't about time spent (hardcore vs casual) at all. There is a 60 minute time limit.

This is about balancing rewards to be proportional to the difficulty.

This is the same reasoning behind why killing fat dodos at rank 50 gives you 10 SP instead of 300.

and its the same reason why the r50 gear will be better then the r30 gear

i wont get the best gear, ill get gear 20 levels lower then me, so whats the problem then?


its not like the r30 dungeon is dropping endgame gear? thats what the r50 dungeon is gonna be for

[Rentahamster]

its not like the r30 dungeon is dropping endgame gear? thats what the r50 dungeon is gonna be for

No kidding that's what the R50 dungeon is for.

The R30 dungeon gear is going to be good FOR R30 players. That's what makes it valuable and prestigious. Of course it's useless for R50 players. However, if you intend to rank up your mid-range classes, then all of a sudden it's not so useless anymore. There is a problem if you can just toggle on easy mode to acquire items that are supposed to be good and elite.

And yet, how do we know the rewards AREN'T balanced already?

Because it is impossible to have the rewards match the effort just by knowing what we know now.

We know that: Raid gear is going to be good. Rank 30 raid gear will be generally better than other gear at rank 30.

Rank 30 raid gear = good gear

Without a level cap, you can steamroll the dungeon as a rank 50 char, therefore not putting in any effort at all to acquire gear that is supposed to be "good".

What this boils down to, basically, is whether or not you are in favor of twinking gear in this game.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

No kidding that's what the R50 dungeon is for.

The R30 dungeon gear is going to be good FOR R30 players. That's what makes it valuable and prestigious. Of course it's useless for R50 players. However, if you intend to rank up your mid-range classes, then all of a sudden it's not so useless anymore. There is a problem if you can just toggle on easy mode to acquire items that are supposed to be good and elite.


Because it is impossible to have the rewards match the effort just by knowing what we know now.

We know that: Raid gear is going to be good. Rank 30 raid gear will be generally better than other gear at rank 30.

Rank 30 raid gear = good gear

Without a level cap, you can steamroll the dungeon as a rank 50 char, therefore not putting in any effort at all to acquire gear that is supposed to be "good".

What this boils down to, basically, is whether or not you are in favor of twinking gear in this game.

What this REALLY boils down to is a difference in opinion. I don't feel the need or desire to put in an hours worth of effort just for the chance that I am going to get r30 gear, plain and simple. So if the dungeon is capped, I will ignore it and go on about my business. I don't care how challenging the community will think the dungeon is, because, by definition, the r50 dungeon will be MORE challenging. Completing the r50 dungeon is the only feat I feel I need to prove to myself and the community and r30 gear is just going to 'be there'. If it is capped, then it doesn't exist in my eyes and I am not the only one who thinks so.

[DurtiMonkeyToe]

This isn't about time spent (hardcore vs casual) at all. There is a 60 minute time limit.

This is about balancing rewards to be proportional to the difficulty.

This is the same reasoning behind why killing fat dodos at rank 50 gives you 10 SP instead of 300.

And yet, how do we know the rewards AREN'T balanced already?

[Lerris]

im not the one who says people wont use it(go look at some of the replies to my posts, its the pro cap people who say a slider wont work and people have to be forced into the challenge or it wont be any)


also, my biggest arguement for a slider, and not a cap, is that a slider is ALREADY CODED into the game and will take less work to implement into this then a level capping feature(which isnt in the game at all yet)

This is a key point. When level capped content in CoP was introduced, there were already capped BCNMs in the game... they knew how to keep characters under cap. There was also no possibility of changing jobs in the middle of the fight, so the cap only needed to be applied and calculated upon entering a capped zone. Applying a cap is a little more complicated in FFXIV since we can change classes freely ( and I'm guessing they don't want to disable this ability ) and the level cap would have to be checked every time we did this.

On the other hand, a one-time difficulty selection upon entering is very manageable, as it is already in the game for levequests.

My preferred approach though, is to include high-level passages and rooms. Just because the main content is geared for 25-30 doesn't mean there can't be deeper, more dangerous areas that provide a greater challenge and greater rewards.

[Xenor]

Applying a cap is a little more complicated in FFXIV since we can change classes freely ( and I'm guessing they don't want to disable this ability ) and the level cap would have to be checked every time we did this..

No it's not more complicated. It's a simple logic check when the player sends the request to the server to change quest. IF CLASS > 30 DENY ELSE CHANGE CLASS. How hard can it be to program that? They wouldn't be disabling the ability to change class, they'd be disabling the ability to use an over-ranked class. You'd still be able to change class to one that meets the requirement.

[Physic]

No it's not more complicated. It's a simple logic check when the player sends the request to the server to change quest. IF CLASS > 30 DENY ELSE CHANGE CLASS. How hard can it be to program that? They wouldn't be disabling the ability to change class, they'd be disabling the ability to use an over-ranked class. You'd still be able to change class to one that meets the requirement.

most people do not mean a level cap as in you cannot enter this dunegon, they mean a level cap as in, it adjusts your level for the duration of the raid.
they already have gear scaling in effect, i dont think it would be that hard, but who knows.