Geomancer (CNJ Job) concept

[Mcshiggs]

Just gonna put it out there, second job for conjurer will be something like geomancer, but will be a tanking job.

[Mimilu]

Why would it be a tank?
If it's not going to be a healer, it's not going to get much enmity without its healing spells.
That would mean that all of it's enmity gaining stuff and probably stuff to boost it's defensive capabilities would have to be it's Job Actions, so it wouldn't be able to do its job in level synchs under level 30, like the daily roulette or event FATES.
Not to mention, SE would have give GEO an unholy amount of stat growth just to compensate for CNJ's sub-par defensive stats.

[Duelle]

I'm on board for the GEO crystal changing Cleric Stance to something else. It'd be tough to come up with a suitable replacement, but here's some suggestions:

If you want to use it for MP management, turn it into a toggle where using spells cost less and refund MP per use but causing you to deal a less damage.

Another option would be give spells certain effects depending on whether you're in not-cleric-stance or not. It would make stance-dancing a main mechanic of GEO but I figure someone out there might like it.

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Ground target AOE shouldn't be a main mechanic of GEO, but its lv50 ability should be something along those lines to stay within concept.

[LadyVaJedi]

how about using cnj/thm.

[Mcshiggs]

Making it a tank would be easy, when geomancer stone equipped, it changes cleric stance to Granite stance, have it work similar to bear form for druids in WoW, while it's on increases Vitality, defense, and enmity by a certain % and keep the healing nerf on it.

[Kitru]

Making it a tank would be easy, when geomancer stone equipped, it changes cleric stance to Granite stance, have it work similar to bear form for druids in WoW, while it's on increases Vitality, defense, and enmity by a certain % and keep the healing nerf on it.

Except, you know, because it would be swapping MND and INT for DPS casting purposes, you'd be able to swap out of it with no problem and start dumping out heals to rival an actual healer. You'd also have a healer with a whopping 4 attacks to its name and no tank CDs at all. CNJ isn't going to get any new job for it simply because, as a class, it's too entrenched as a healer and they're not going to double up on roles for a job.

Also, it makes absolutely *no sense* for CNJ to get a tank job from a thematic point. Druid manages to tank in WoW because it turns them into a *bear*; your idea would just be "stoneskin on myself makes me a tank!" which is a laughably flimsy pretext.

[Mcshiggs]

Except, you know, because it would be swapping MND and INT for DPS casting purposes, you'd be able to swap out of it with no problem and start dumping out heals to rival an actual healer. You'd also have a healer with a whopping 4 attacks to its name and no tank CDs at all. CNJ isn't going to get any new job for it simply because, as a class, it's too entrenched as a healer and they're not going to double up on roles for a job.

Also, it makes absolutely *no sense* for CNJ to get a tank job from a thematic point. Druid manages to tank in WoW because it turns them into a *bear*; your idea would just be "stoneskin on myself makes me a tank!" which is a laughably flimsy pretext.

Your gear would not be mind based, so the higher level you get, the bigger the healing difference would be in and out of a cleric stance, and about the 4 attacks, lets look at gladiator, they get 4 combo abilities, a ranged attack, but since all conjurer attacks are ranged, this isn't an issue, a stun, conjurer gets a knockback/bind with fluid aura, all that's left is an aoe dot and a triggered pacify, with job abilities, cross class skills, and the fact that new jobs will probably come with a level cap, meaning more abilities, conjurer isn't missing that much.

As far as a stance to make you a tank being laughable, paladins use their skill with shields, shield oath to tank, warriors use defiance using their inner rage to tank, all geomancers would be doing is manipulating the elements around them to strengthen themselves, and weaken their enemies in order to tank.

I think this would work in well with the story, I'm thinking the first expansion will bring in more invasions form the empire and open up Ishguard, both which can looked as immediate threats to the Twelveswood, geomancers are a group of conjurers that have ventured out of the woods to stop the threat before it gets there, and have adapted their magics to stand on the frontlines for once. All this is just opinions and guesses, SE will do whatever they want, I can just see this as a possibility.

[Kitru]

Your gear would not be mind based, so the higher level you get, the bigger the healing difference would be in and out of a cleric stance,

All left side gear has the exact same amount of mainstat and VIT regardless of role. The only difference would be right side gear, which is ~30% of total additional mainstat. Basically, you'd get a tank that can swap out to act like ~75-80% of a healer, since it's not like they're losing any heals.

the 4 attacks, lets look at gladiator, they get 4 combo abilities

CNJ has no combo abilities and only has 3 real attacks that it would use: Stone II (since it's more damage than Stone), Aero II (DoT), and Aero (DoT). The CNJ"tank" rotation would consist of applying maintaining Aero II and Aero and spamming Stone II otherwise. If you think that PLD is boring, CNJ would be even worse, especially since PLD, at the very least, has 2 off-GCD attacks it uses. CNJ has none (Fluid Aura is a KB/bind utility; the stuff that it would actually KB would be annoying as hell for any melee DPS).

Also, you'd be creating a *really* weird enmity generation profile since there are no combos. The closest you could get, probably, is for Stone II to generate more enmity based for each of the DoTs you've placed on the target but, even then, you'd still be able to chain Stone II before having to recast Aero II or Aero, which still creates a wonky enmity generation profile.

a ranged attack, but since all conjurer attacks are ranged, this isn't an issue

Except that they're all casts, so you'd need to do something about that. You could make it so that the stance prevents you from being interrupted, but then you wouldn't be able to attack while moving, which is relatively integral to tanking.

, a stun, conjurer gets a knockback/bind with fluid aura

Stun != KB/Bind. Stuns actually work on bosses; KB/Bind don't (one of the reasons why Holmgang in 2.0 was so completely worthless). Stun doesn't play holy hell with mDPS; KB does.

all that's left is an aoe dot and a triggered pacify

You completely forgot the suite of 5 major tank CDs (Conv, Rampart, HG, Sentinel, Bulwark) that PLD has. CNJ has no tank CDs at all. Stoneskin is a *maybe*, but it's a hardcast and goes away pretty damned fast.

with job abilities, cross class skills

So, let's look at what CNJ is missing that needs to made up with in these 10 potential slots: it needs ~5 major tank CDs, a major DPS boost (FoF; Unchained and Berserk), a provoke, and a native AoE threat ability (and Flash isn't gonna cut it because Flash scales with attack power, which will be in short supply with MND as the attack stat). It also needs to have at least 3 of those at level 30 (AoE, DPS boost, tank CD). With GLA, you get Provoke and Convalescence (Awareness is a joke as a tank CD); with MRD, you don't get anything that fulfills those qualifications (Foresight is a joke; Bloodbath is similar).

As such, CNJ isn't going to have the requisite abilities at 30 (1 job ability and Convalescence; missing either the DPS CD or the AoE) and, unless the devs decide that abilities like Rampart and Vengeance should be cross-classable (doubtful; if they actually wanted to, they would have allowed Rampart to be CC instead of giving Vengeance the DR), you'd need to somehow fit an AoE, a DPS boost, and, at the very least, 3-4 tank CDs in there. While it wouldn't be explicitly required, you can be damned sure that there would need to be at least 1-2 ST attacks in there to make up for the fact that CNJ has a *horrible* native suite.

Something else to consider: because you're coopting the healer DPS stance to turn into a tank stance, this proposed CNJ DPS job would be at a substantial disadvantage while soloing.

the fact that new jobs will probably come with a level cap, meaning more abilities, conjurer isn't missing that much.

That's not a fact. That's a supposition. It would be a fact if the devs actually confirmed it, which is the opposite of what they've done since they've actually said that they plan on adding new jobs/classes as part of major updates rather than waiting for expansions.

So, yeah, CNJ is a laughable choice to use for a tank job. It's missing absolutely pretty much everything that a tank actually requires because all you think that a tank needs, apparently, is a tank stance and an attack or two.

[Deifact]

Interesting idea but seems similar to blm to me I.e. stance mechanic to balance DPS/mp regen.

[Mcshiggs]

Like I said, it's opinions and guesses, you obviously are set in yours, and think no one else can be right, I can live with that, I just think lancer and conjurer are the two most likely classes to get tanking jobs, if you can't see that, maybe you don't have much imagination in your thinking, I see conjurer as being able to branch into a tank job, you don't so be it. I for one would like to see them take chances and try things out of the box to maybe bring along something new and fun. Ninja was never thought to be a tank in XI, it couldn't use a shield, it didn't have amazingly high hps, couldn't use heavy armor, but players took it a different way and the game adapted to it. There is already a video out of a conjurer tanking Titan, I think if they wanted to, they could make it work.