Changing the Attribute Point / Physical Level System - Something more FLEXIBLE :)

[Rentahamster]

i see what you are saying Rentahamster, but the problem is there are more than 2 different type of classes. yes, we do have the dom and dow classes, but also have dol and doh classes and their offhand and secondhand stats differ as well.

Hm? In my post I agreed with what you were saying, and I also quoted Gyactus' post too:

2. Create a Window, where we can create, save, select, and eventually modify 4-5 different setups of stats. I prefer this model, because I can create my own setup of stats (i.e. "healer) and use it when needed in a party, or create a "DPS" setup when I'm solo.

I have suggested this before: For each job let the player save a particular "loadout" or "bookmark" or "profile" or whatever you want to call it, so that a crafter can switch from mainhand spec to offhand spec to mass production spec to HQ spec at the click of a button, and so that a Melee can swith from tank spec to DPS spec to solo spec at the push of a button as well.

Of course, this wouldn't be needed at all if stats were set automatically. The devs, of course, would have to tweak how stats affect your main hand and off hand tools in crafting so that you can still optimize in some way for them. Or not.

as you pointed out 80-130 is very little difference, but at this point you need that 130 to be effective at lvl 50.

You may need 130 VIT to be effective at rank 50, but you certainly don't need 130 STR or DEX or INT or PIE since the gains are minimal. In the case of melees and tanks, you're better off keeping your strength at 80 and your Fire stat at 55 so that you can receive the "divine" boost from Shepard's Pie.

if they drop the amounts of points received will they also raise the value of each point when you allot it?

Yes, of course. That's what I was talking about when I mentioned "balancing". This would also achieve the goal of making a +5 stat ring that much more effective.

[darkstarpoet1]

i just wanted a lil more clarification on what you meant. i wasn't meaning my post as an argument i just wanted to put across what i considered as an effective solution to try and solve the issues. i completely agree the +5 and +7 rings and all are way undervalued at this point in the game. those are high level items....well high with a 50 cap...and it makes no sense as to why they are ineffective. ya know they could always put a hard cap on the points you could allot to a certain stat and only allow it to be boosted above it with gear/ accessories. i think that would be too much mommy hold my hand type stuff though. oh and yeah sorry i did mean the 130 vitality.

me personally i am lazy and have my stats all 84 top to bottom so no matter what class i jump in i am set without having to allot points again. i would, however, take the time to set each class if they gave me to option when i save the points for each class so it would be set from now on.

[Kiara]

Hi rentahamster,

Thanks for the great reply. Yah, however we accomplish it, I think we're hoping for the same thing: Making switching classes easier and making the game more FUN because of it.

I haven't even talked about Crafting Classes with their "favored Stats" (e.g., Alchemist Main Hand Tool is dependent on high INT, etc.). Being able to let players switch classes and move most of their Stats / Ability Points is the key here.

And great point on just giving us maybe 6 Stat Points per Level Up (instead of 20+).

Most of our Armor and Weapons giving Stat Bonuses are marginalized right now. That piece of Armor that grants +2 STR is laughable the way the current FF XIV system is set up, since it adds so little in the grand scheme of points (we can add 200+ Points into STR after a full reassign, what real, noticeable effect am I going to see with the Armor that gives me +2 STR?).

I just hope Yoshida-san gives us these real changes soon. His latest interview hints at before the end of Spring, so hopefully next month?

[Shoopdadoopdoop]

Physical level needs to go, in my humble opinion. My FF experience has always been something like this: "If I can grind enough gil/experience, then I'll have enough to get my (insert heavy hitter here, zidane, auron, squall, cloud)'s strength from 157 to 200, I'll be able to tackle this boss with relative ease!

In FFXIV, if I fail a leve due to a small lalafell sized HP pool or a lack of combat efficiency due to accuracy or attack or whatever the cause may be, the only way to fix the problem is to try something easier. Reassigning my available points to combat my low HP pool forces me to make myself weaker in other areas for the rest of my time under this stat allocation. Reassigning my stats to a balanced set up grants no notable bonuses either.

Now, you might ask, what are you trying to say? Why does it matter to the developers that you can't get your weak character through the levequest?

The answer is simple. Stat parameters are what has always made your progress noteworthy in a FF game. In almost every FF, the attack or hit rating on your weapon makes you hit normal mobs for hundreds more. The numbers rose exponentially as you grew from a lowbie to the end result (FFVIII being an exception to this by scaling all enemies to Squall's level,). What we need to is align stats in a coherent, fitting manner for each class. Do away with physical experience and freely allocatable stat points. You're a level 1 gladiator? Okay, you get 15str, 18vit, and 15 dex. I DONT CARE that you already have a marauder at 50. That shouldn't DIRECTLY effect your performance on another class directly, as its not the same class. Make 255 the stat cap, like its always been. Allocate stat points automatically so that 50s have up to 65-80 naturally in their highest stat. And then, rescale stats' effectiveness in combat so that one level matters! 64 to 67 strength should be a BIG upgrade. Think about it. 3 is 5% of 60. If you raise your strength by 5%, your hits need to be 5% more effective. There has to be SOME kind of coherence to stats. Make that HQ worth your money. Make it worth it to fill your equip slots with a particular stat. At this point, there is absolutely no reason for me not to put every single point into VIT strictly for HP on my melees, and every single point into MND for more MP on my casters. Because if i decide to be adventerous and stack PIE and INT, I already know I'm never going to see a difference. If my INT goes from 40 to 80, my Thunder II will go from 350-360 to 356-365. It just doesn't make any sense.



In conclusion ( I know its poorly typed with no breaks so start here if you don't like proofreading)

- No more physical EXP, make your class level the sole source of measurement of basic stat parameters.
- Scale stats down slightly, making a solid 255 cap for all stats. As level cap and gear is introduced, stats can grow with them. Maybe after 5 years of expansion, and 5 cap raises all the way to 100, 255 will be reachable with some gear. Maybe not. But FF games, in my experience, cap stats at 255.
- Give gear level requirements and class specialization. A level 10 conjurer shouldn't be getting 30MP from his Vintage Robe. He should be getting an error message when he tries to put it on. It just doesn't make any sense.
- Add incentive to progress by leveling the playing field and automatically allocating stat points just like in... every other FF game?
- Add incentive to progress by introducing multiple AF-like sets for each class, creating quest chains both solo and group oriented that reward specialized gear that makes a difference.
- Improve class individuality by scaling down affinity or limiting a character to abilities within his discipline. (DoW can only use GLA MRD ARC PUG and LNC abilities, DoM can only use CON and THM, etc etc., I shouldn't be able to cure myself for 400HP 30 times in a fight on my level 1 archer, I'm sorry. but it just doesn't make any sense.)

[darkstarpoet1]

Physical level needs to go, in my humble opinion. My FF experience has always been something like this: "If I can grind enough gil/experience, then I'll have enough to get my (insert heavy hitter here, zidane, auron, squall, cloud)'s strength from 157 to 200, I'll be able to tackle this boss with relative ease!

In FFXIV, if I fail a leve due to a small lalafell sized HP pool or a lack of combat efficiency due to accuracy or attack or whatever the cause may be, the only way to fix the problem is to try something easier. Reassigning my available points to combat my low HP pool forces me to make myself weaker in other areas for the rest of my time under this stat allocation. Reassigning my stats to a balanced set up grants no notable bonuses either.

Now, you might ask, what are you trying to say? Why does it matter to the developers that you can't get your weak character through the levequest?

The answer is simple. Stat parameters are what has always made your progress noteworthy in a FF game. In almost every FF, the attack or hit rating on your weapon makes you hit normal mobs for hundreds more. The numbers rose exponentially as you grew from a lowbie to the end result (FFVIII being an exception to this by scaling all enemies to Squall's level,). What we need to is align stats in a coherent, fitting manner for each class. Do away with physical experience and freely allocatable stat points. You're a level 1 gladiator? Okay, you get 15str, 18vit, and 15 dex. I DONT CARE that you already have a marauder at 50. That shouldn't DIRECTLY effect your performance on another class directly, as its not the same class. Make 255 the stat cap, like its always been. Allocate stat points automatically so that 50s have up to 65-80 naturally in their highest stat. And then, rescale stats' effectiveness in combat so that one level matters! 64 to 67 strength should be a BIG upgrade. Think about it. 3 is 5% of 60. If you raise your strength by 5%, your hits need to be 5% more effective. There has to be SOME kind of coherence to stats. Make that HQ worth your money. Make it worth it to fill your equip slots with a particular stat. At this point, there is absolutely no reason for me not to put every single point into VIT strictly for HP on my melees, and every single point into MND for more MP on my casters. Because if i decide to be adventerous and stack PIE and INT, I already know I'm never going to see a difference. If my INT goes from 40 to 80, my Thunder II will go from 350-360 to 356-365. It just doesn't make any sense.



In conclusion ( I know its poorly typed with no breaks so start here if you don't like proofreading)

- No more physical EXP, make your class level the sole source of measurement of basic stat parameters.
- Scale stats down slightly, making a solid 255 cap for all stats. As level cap and gear is introduced, stats can grow with them. Maybe after 5 years of expansion, and 5 cap raises all the way to 100, 255 will be reachable with some gear. Maybe not. But FF games, in my experience, cap stats at 255.
- Give gear level requirements and class specialization. A level 10 conjurer shouldn't be getting 30MP from his Vintage Robe. He should be getting an error message when he tries to put it on. It just doesn't make any sense.
- Add incentive to progress by leveling the playing field and automatically allocating stat points just like in... every other FF game?
- Add incentive to progress by introducing multiple AF-like sets for each class, creating quest chains both solo and group oriented that reward specialized gear that makes a difference.
- Improve class individuality by scaling down affinity or limiting a character to abilities within his discipline. (DoW can only use GLA MRD ARC PUG and LNC abilities, DoM can only use CON and THM, etc etc., I shouldn't be able to cure myself for 400HP 30 times in a fight on my level 1 archer, I'm sorry. but it just doesn't make any sense.)

i completely disagree. it may be a different class, but it is still the same character. if you work out to be able to play football you build your body correct? if you go over and decide to do power lifting from there you do not start off as a complete new person because you already built your body up to a high level from your other class. all i am saying is the strength you gained from doing one class should have some bearing on what you are on the next level. i just feel as though we get too many points on each level up.

i made a suggestion earlier that on each level we get whether it's physical or class you get one point for each level. for example a lvl 50pug and lvl 50physical would have 100 total points they could allot on the pug class only. a 21con when you go to another class still as a 50phy you would only have 71 points you could use on your con. my thinking is that physical level should help you some when you go to another class, but that having the stats of a level 50 at a level 1 is way too much. this way like your +5 and +7 rings would also have usage bacause your gear would allow you to move up an additional % above the max of a stat, but we would have to take into account of the difference of the amount of overall points each point you allot would have a higher value. this would also make people take the time to make sure that the gear/accessories they equip make the maximum usage of the points it gives.

i just feel this is the fair way to correct the issue by allowing you to get some benefits off a physical level along with making each class have its own set of points to use on that individual class. it would also make items such as +5 dexterity rings actually have the value compared to the cost of those items.

[Gespanth]

IMHO I think that they need to have seperat stat distribution for each job. Ie you equip a lance you switch over to your lancer stat distribution, you equip an axe you switch to the stat dsitribution for marauder. so on and so forth. it keeps the PL and still allows you to play each class the way that YOU want to play it instead of having to spend HOURS redistributing

[Anty]

i agree 100% with your post Kiara, i also like to have a bit of points left after job change like you said but it would be nice if you could also save them so you dont have to reassign them (unless you want to). (like it is with abilites you set shoudl stay when you change jobs)

[DarkArrow]

Thanks for the great reply. Yah, however we accomplish it, I think we're hoping for the same thing: Making switching classes easier and making the game more FUN because of it.

That's all I hope gets done really. There are many methods to do so and I do agree that the current system just makes things difficult.

[Turtle]

I'm really fond of the "idea" behind the stat system and skill / armoury system. But it didn't really work out the way I imagined it would. I'm glad you and others are addressing these issue's. I'm personally not that attached to the level part of the game, and assuming they fix the attribute system, people would be way over powered at lower levels with a physical level 50 background. Your idea seems solid. I just hope that SE implements it soon. I'm really enjoying ffxiv right now and am very psyched about future updates. I like growing with a game.

[Valadher]

well im gonna make my point quick, if stats are almost "uselles" or dosnt helps much, why even bother changing them? instead of keeping some good dex, vit and mind, and thenn u will be abble to use almost every job, another point i want to mark is, if they want to make some kind of.. balance btw players who play a lot and players who dosnt, why does relocating stats takes that much, if a hardcore player takes up to 12 hours, a player who cant play daily would take? days? weeks? months?

but anyway im new but ive been reading a lot about this thread, and i think the weapon stat system would be better, or another "good" way could be to raise your stats depending on the class you are training, archers and leatherworkers could rise your dex, figthers and smithers could get str, and such, so to make a good "build" you would need to stick a while with certain jobs, and that way you could easily move btw like, ftr classes, or magical classes, etc

P.D.: i apologyse if my english its bad, its not my main