Please adjust Directional requirements for DRG to match how it is for MNK

[Denmark]

The need for strict positional attacks is a pretty low skill requirement when you consider that DRG does not have to deal with a GL type of buff. If the levi fight is in fact like Demon Wall then it doesn't matter that MNK can use all it's combos/debuffs and DRG can't because both jobs will under preform compared to ranged jobs that will be able to preform at full potential for the full duration.

[Itseotle]

After thinking about it more. They need to change these 4 skills:

Feint
Disembowel
Ring of Talons
Doom Spike

My suggestions:

Feint should swap with Disembowel and give the piercing debuff. This way if you run into a monster that you cannot get behind, demon wall, it would not screw us over too much.

Disembowel gives the slow instead of Feint. Validates actually having slow on the mob granted it doesn't naturally resist.

Ring of Talons should give a weaker AoE piercing debuff or possibly another debuff. IF it gives the piercing debuff the potency should be lowered.

Doom Spike still needs to be buffed by 10-20 potency, have potentially less tp drain, or give a mini dot. Anything really to make it a "different" kind of AoE when compared to RoT (YES, I know one is a line and another is a circle but in most fights you do AoE it is a trivial matter lol)

I do not agree with these. Adding a slow as a standard rotation ability will make the target resistant to slow for the entire fight essentially. This is bad, as you cannot use a slow when necessary. At the moment, its not useful in many fights... Hydra is really the only one I can think of, but if SE does decide to allow debuffs to hit bosses, this would make it a terrible effect.

Making Feint give a piercing debuff is also a bad idea because our rotations no longer flow and we would use more TP than we currently do. Taking it off global and removing TP cost would be a decent idea though, as we could then apply the debuff to adds as they spawned without breaking rotation.

Ring of Thorns and Doom Spike are fine as is atm, not because of there potency and aoe field, but because of there combo requirements. They each have there uses, where RoT is less AOE dps but conserves slightly more TP (when combo spammed) and DS is more damage but drains TP much faster. In a fight like Turn IV this isn't a good thing.

[Kuroyasha]

If you can't get an attack from the correct direction you can use the combo that doesn't need a direction.

Doing that gives you plenty of potency. True thrust vorpal thrust full thrust. 150 > 200 > 330. Your damage is fine.

This /10chars

[SeraviEdalborez]

The need for strict positional attacks is a pretty low skill requirement when you consider that DRG does not have to deal with a GL type of buff. If the levi fight is in fact like Demon Wall then it doesn't matter that MNK can use all it's combos/debuffs and DRG can't because both jobs will under preform compared to ranged jobs that will be able to preform at full potential for the full duration.

And that's a problem in its own right. There's already an unhealthy amount of misconception that melee DPS are terrible on EX primals.

[Mardel]

I do not agree with these. Adding a slow as a standard rotation ability will make the target resistant to slow for the entire fight essentially. This is bad, as you cannot use a slow when necessary. At the moment, its not useful in many fights... Hydra is really the only one I can think of, but if SE does decide to allow debuffs to hit bosses, this would make it a terrible effect.

Making Feint give a piercing debuff is also a bad idea because our rotations no longer flow and we would use more TP than we currently do. Taking it off global and removing TP cost would be a decent idea though, as we could then apply the debuff to adds as they spawned without breaking rotation.

Ring of Thorns and Doom Spike are fine as is atm, not because of there potency and aoe field, but because of there combo requirements. They each have there uses, where RoT is less AOE dps but conserves slightly more TP (when combo spammed) and DS is more damage but drains TP much faster. In a fight like Turn IV this isn't a good thing.

Ya I'll revise my statement then (I did it early in the morning like 2am so I was about to go to bed.)


I agree on a few points and counter some others.

1. You are right about feint/disembowel would make our rotation awkward unless the piercing debuff was off GCD. Thus why not make our full thrust combo branch into something else as a possibility that can give the piercing debuff? (Like how storm's eye/path work)

2. One of our combo's giving slow would probably never harm a boss fight. Nearly all bosses resist and it would be foolish of them to make it otherwise. (Plus I don't think I've ever used feint outside dicking around... usually just a waste of time -.-

3. I do know that DS/RoT are different in terms of TP consumption ect, but like you said in T4 running out of tp would be a bad thing. HOWEVER if they had a small piercing debuff attached to the combo version of RoT we wouldn't worry about spamming it as much because we would be doing slightly more damage. So would the bards.




Food for thought:
Currently in a flat dps race monk > us. UNLESS we have like 2 bards in the PT to make up for the DPS difference via piercing debuff. This means that 2 brd, 1 drg to overtake mnk + X + X.


One of the big reasons I suggest some changes is due to how the future classes may come to play, example a Gun based class. What kind of damage will they be? Blunt? Piercing? If blunt, well there goes another case of MNK > DRG because they will not only do more damage than us but also boost their damage.


Final Note: Not crying about our current situation. In fact it doesn't bother me considering I have blm just as geared, but if they are going to try and make classes not have a major advantage over another they should consider cleaning up some trash skills/abilities they are giving jobs currently.

[EasymodeX]

Currently in a flat dps race monk > us. UNLESS we have like 2 bards in the PT to make up for the DPS difference via piercing debuff.

Pretty sure a DRG will match a MNK's group DPS with just 1 BRD in the party.

well there goes another case of MNK > DRG because they will not only do more damage than us but also boost their damage.

The other side of the coin is that Monks are much less resilient against fight mechanics. Several mechanics such as Twintania stun, conflag, Titan Gaol, etc can virtually guarantee a drop in GL. DRGs generally DGAF. In addition, the controlled burst of a DRG is more tactically effective in many fight situations (e.g. bursting adds).

As a result, the DRG and MNK are both in pretty good positions. MNKs have more sustained ST DPS and better defensive utility (Int debuff and traited Mantra). DRGs have more AOE DPS, more ST burst, are resilient against fight mechanics, and have better offensive utility (pierce debuff).

[zdub303]

It's fine as-is, quit crying.

Demon Wall is the only enemy in the game that removes rear-positionals from the table.

For now... that is kind of the point of this thread. New encounters may also incorporate these kinds of mechanics. On a generally melee unfriendly game as it is, having a fight like leviathan remove rear-positionals for some to all of the encounter would pretty much screw over DRGs. I can guarantee you if rear pos attacks aren't available for Levi EX nobody will be taking seriously gimped DRGs (well nobody with half a brain that is).

[Denmark]

And that's a problem in its own right. There's already an unhealthy amount of misconception that melee DPS are terrible on EX primals.

I don't disagree that it could very well be a problem I simply think that the mechanics of how fights work and the risk Vs. reward for melee/Ranged need an update more than something like allowing me to freely add disembowel whenever I feel like it. That is my fault for not properly expressing what I was thinking at the time though.

[Orophin]

Curious how that Leviathan fight is gonna work if he's gonna be hanging out on the side of the boat the whole time. Hope this doesn't cause problems for DRG/MNK.

[Umero]

doing it in the rear really feels so much pleasure?
I kinda prefer doing it in front.
Maybe they should just seriously be thinking about making impulse drive works when either in front or back.